Chris2112 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Wait? Jeff Berlin isn't a huge fan of fretless basses? Whatever next, someone telling me bears sh*t in the woods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1303043' date='Jul 13 2011, 11:46 PM']I think we have to ask, what makes a player choose a fretless bass over a fretted bass?[/quote] IMO they are different instruments but they do a similar job. I've only been playing bass a short time but I come from a violin playing background so, to me, to not have frets is natural. I prefer the feel; it's like you are more "into" the instrument. But, as ever, it's horses for courses. I would like to see more fretless players out there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1303043' date='Jul 13 2011, 11:46 PM']I think we have to ask, what makes a player choose a fretless bass over a fretted bass?[/quote] Fretless bass is just like fretted bass but without the stabilisers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='muttley' post='1303182' date='Jul 14 2011, 08:23 AM']I prefer the feel; it's like you are more "into" the instrument.[/quote] +1 There's a more direct connection with the note, for me. It's also much more the sound I [i]want[/i] to hear. String on finger and wood, not string on metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 For the record, JB has done some stunning stuff in the past. His LPs 'Champions' and 'Pump It' were great records and his stuff with Bruford was pretty cool. I also loved the LP he did with Allan Holdsworth (Road Games). He started losing me when he started self-producing. It was at that point that he started to 'feature' the bass in ways that were, IMO, unmusical. Bottom line is that, for me, JB is a great sideman but, without a strong producer, he is overly self indulgent and lacks any critcal sense in terms of what works and what doesn't. His bass used to sound great when he has that old Fender hybrid but his Peavey and Dean basses both sounded thin as a rake and lacking in ovetones. His chordal playing is, as has been said here, just poor guitar playing and 'clever' rather than 'musical'. He had some critical acclaim for his version of Dixie (which was very good) and he has been chasing the same rainbow ever since but to no avail. I think the guy should take some lessons in arranging AWAY FROM THE BASS and try writing for an ensemble in which he doesn't play i.e. take his bass playing (and his 'lead bass' player's perspective) OUT of the music and concentrate on the notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 It isn't the instrument so much..it is the clones that do it, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='1303252' date='Jul 14 2011, 09:55 AM']+1 There's a more direct connection with the note, for me. It's also much more the sound I [i]want[/i] to hear. String on finger and wood, not string on metal.[/quote] I agree with this entirely. A fretless is an entirely different animal and I feel a deep bond with a fretless whenever I play one. Sadly, The music I play sounds better with a fretted, plus I haven't the time to practice hard enough to get the intonation accurate enough, especially above the 15th fret area, it's very f***ing difficult and I could not live with the mess I would create up there. So I sold mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1303257' date='Jul 14 2011, 10:00 AM']For the record, JB has done some stunning stuff in the past. His LPs 'Champions' and 'Pump It' were great records and his stuff with Bruford was pretty cool. I also loved the LP he did with Allan Holdsworth (Road Games). He started losing me when he started self-producing. It was at that point that he started to 'feature' the bass in ways that were, IMO, unmusical. Bottom line is that, for me, JB is a great sideman but, without a strong producer, he is overly self indulgent and lacks any critcal sense in terms of what works and what doesn't. His bass used to sound great when he has that old Fender hybrid but his Peavey and Dean basses both sounded thin as a rake and lacking in ovetones. His chordal playing is, as has been said here, just poor guitar playing and 'clever' rather than 'musical'. He had some critical acclaim for his version of Dixie (which was very good) and he has been chasing the same rainbow ever since but to no avail. I think the guy should take some lessons in arranging AWAY FROM THE BASS and try writing for an ensemble in which he doesn't play i.e. take his bass playing (and his 'lead bass' player's perspective) OUT of the music and concentrate on the notes.[/quote] This for me sums up Jeff Berlin very well, and i agree on every point. Arranging away from the Bass opens up a whole new approach to Music, and hearing things for what they really are musically. Music is not hard - its easy. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm glad Bakithi Kumalo never listened to Jeff. Or Les Claypool for that matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='1301522' date='Jul 12 2011, 08:08 PM']I can't forgive Berlin for that stupid 80's video with some wrestler/boxer in it. Embarrassing.[/quote] I thought his "Take my breath away" was pretty good, although I was surprised that he used synth bass. Who is this Jaco Pastorius of whom he speaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='1303252' date='Jul 14 2011, 09:55 AM']String on finger and wood, not string on metal.[/quote] Yeah, I think that pretty much nails it for me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1303324' date='Jul 14 2011, 11:12 AM']I'm glad Bakithi Kumalo never listened to Jeff. Or Les Claypool for that matter...[/quote] Baktihi has always been my favourite fretless player. What a talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 MB1. "No wait!,Don't titter Mrs! Jeff knows best!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='tauzero' post='1303366' date='Jul 14 2011, 11:50 AM']Who is this Jaco Pastorius of whom he speaks?[/quote] He did a line in knitted head wear for bass players I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Marvin' post='1303572' date='Jul 14 2011, 02:29 PM']He did a line in knitted head wear for bass players I believe.[/quote] It has been suggested that he did many 'lines', with & without knitted headwear for Bass players. Garry Edited July 14, 2011 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Pino Palladino. Michael Manring. Mick Karn. Gary Willis. All these fretless bassists have one thing in common: they play with a great amount of SOUL. Jeff Berlin. This bassist is just an R-SOUL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1303257' date='Jul 14 2011, 02:00 AM']His bass used to sound great when he has that old Fender hybrid but his Peavey and Dean basses both sounded thin as a rake and lacking in ovetones.[/quote] A bit of trivia... the bass used on Champion was a Tobias loaned to him for the sessions. Around the same time Tobias also made a new neck for his old blonde Pbass and hot rodded a Yamaha he had including shaving the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1304370' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:21 AM']....shaving the neck.[/quote] Should have got them to do his lip whilst they had the gear out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1304390' date='Jul 15 2011, 01:34 AM']Should have got them to do his lip whilst they had the gear out... [/quote] And then work on the $2 haircut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1304370' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:21 AM']A bit of trivia... the bass used on Champion was a Tobias loaned to him for the sessions.[/quote] He uses a Tobias on the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe live DVD too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Back in the day I defretted my firs tbass, because that is what you do when you get your second bass. A friend lent me Jaco Pastorius, and I was listening to it an not really getting it. My housemate, who had some musical education (then realise he should probably get a degree in something he could live off) id at one point say 'that sounds like that CD.' So that fretlesss sound, devoid of skill or ability does link up to Jaco pretty easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1303257' date='Jul 14 2011, 10:00 AM']For the record, JB has done some stunning stuff in the past. His LPs 'Champions' and 'Pump It' were great records and his stuff with Bruford was pretty cool. I also loved the LP he did with Allan Holdsworth (Road Games). He started losing me when he started self-producing. It was at that point that he started to 'feature' the bass in ways that were, IMO, unmusical. Bottom line is that, for me, JB is a great sideman but, without a strong producer, he is overly self indulgent and lacks any critcal sense in terms of what works and what doesn't. His bass used to sound great when he has that old Fender hybrid but his Peavey and Dean basses both sounded thin as a rake and lacking in ovetones. His chordal playing is, as has been said here, just poor guitar playing and 'clever' rather than 'musical'. He had some critical acclaim for his version of Dixie (which was very good) and he has been chasing the same rainbow ever since but to no avail. I think the guy should take some lessons in arranging AWAY FROM THE BASS and try writing for an ensemble in which he doesn't play i.e. take his bass playing (and his 'lead bass' player's perspective) OUT of the music and concentrate on the notes.[/quote] here here - jaco was an all round player and musician - jb's musical brain seems to my ears to be predominantly and overhelmingly focussed on his right hand technique - when his left hand gets as good as his right we should be in for some musical treats - one of the most unfortunate things for jb imho is that frank zappa never recruited him into his band to broaden his playing and his musicality jaco was naturally much more musical than JB - listen to joni mitchells dry cleaner from des moines and try and ignore the bass line (if at all possible) and concentrate on the horns. then go listen to some of jacos solo stuff with big band horn arrangements. then check out the credits and see who arranged those horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' post='1301357' date='Jul 12 2011, 05:42 PM']Woo, professional troll![/quote] This. Sometimes I really have my doubts whether Jeff actually believes half the crap he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [quote name='steve-bbb' post='1305476' date='Jul 16 2011, 08:59 AM']then check out the credits and see who arranged those horns![/quote] Yep, and always overlooked in favour of 'I don't get him' Some of his Big Band arranging was superb. And as much as i liked a lot of JB's early stuff [his own & as a sideman] he never got out of his comfort zone and attempted anything on that level. [Arranging] Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1305380' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:48 AM']A friend lent me Jaco Pastorius[/quote] Did he have to dig him up first? [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1305380' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:48 AM']So that fretlesss sound, devoid of skill or ability does link up to Jaco pretty easily.[/quote] Hmmm. Many years ago, I recorded a demo with one band which we sent (among other destinations) to the monthly magazine [i]Brum Beat[/i]. They commented that one particular track would sound good on a fretless. I completely agreed with them, which is why I had recorded it using a fretless. Doh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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