Lack of Talent.

[Dandelion]

Can extensive practice ever make up for lack of talent?

If I practiced for 50 years, would I ever be as good as Jaco was after one?

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='Dandelion' post='1301458' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:20 PM']Can extensive practice ever make up for lack of talent?

If I practiced for 50 years, would I ever be as good as Jaco was after one? [/quote]

Surely if you practice alot then you will become talented at one style or another.
Do you want to play like Jaco then?

[Monckyman]

Of course. Just in your own way.

[EssentialTension]

If you practice you'll be better than if you didn't practice but that's about it.

[Maverick]

Get your 10,000 hours done then let us know.

[Len_derby]

[quote name='Maverick' post='1301472' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:28 PM']Get your 10,000 hours done then let us know.[/quote]

In case you don't know, this refers to a book called 'The Bounce'. In a nutshell, it questions the idea of 'talent' and suggests, through research, that about 10,000 hours of the right kind of practise is necessary to be a 'master' at anything.
Interesting stuff. The forum had a good chew on it a while back. Here's the link
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=138177"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=138177[/url]

[xilddx]

I don't think practice [without the talent and need to communicate through the medium of music] will do much without learning guidance, listening to the great music, playing with and learning to empathise with other musicians, surrounding yourself with talent, and most importantly, a deep deep love for music - like you would shrivel and die without it. You need it all.

The object of music is communication. I think people need that spark in them that makes music the best way for them to communicate.

[silentbob]

I have no natural talent, i don't think that any amount of practicing will make me talented, but does it matter aslong as i'm enjoying myself? Does it hell

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='silddx' post='1301490' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:38 PM']The object of music is communication. I think people need that spark in them that makes music the best way for them to communicate.[/quote]
That's it, there. One could spend 100,000 hours practising and still manage to communicate nothing at all, however eloquently (or speedily) one might phrase it.

It's like storytellers. Lots of people have a perfectly adequate vocabulary and deep, fruity voices, but they can't tell an engaging story. Words, phrases, musical notes, scales. All entirely worthless if you're not building a link with the listener.

Edited July 12, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Dandelion' post='1301458' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:20 PM']Can extensive practice ever make up for lack of talent?

If I practiced for 50 years, would I ever be as good as Jaco was after one? [/quote]

By the sounds of it, no.

[risingson]

[quote name='Dandelion' post='1301458' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:20 PM']Can extensive practice ever make up for lack of talent?[/quote]

The situation is a bit of a paradox I think because as you practice, any raw and basic talent you might have as a natural musician becomes refined and focused. People are put together differently and some people I'm sure are more musical than others but assuming you have as much drive as Jaco Pastorius did when he practiced then who can say what kind of dizzying heights you can achieve as a musician!

[ToneDeluxe]

practice and understanding.. talent comes from mental and physical understanding... the patience is in the practice

[xilddx]

[quote name='ToneDeluxe' post='1301558' date='Jul 12 2011, 08:24 PM']practice and understanding.. [b]talent comes from mental and physical understanding[/b]... the patience is in the practice[/quote]
I tend to agree with this, but it's also the desire to understand and make connections with oneself and others. I don't think any great level of technical ability beyond the basics is necessary to communicate through music. But there is a lot of snobbery about with musicians. I think Paul Simonon is a great communicator on the bass, the things he says on the bass completely dwarf his technical ability. But he knows how to pick up on the ethereal things that music is really about. It's next to impossible to practice that.

[xgsjx]

If you practice & practice until you can play whatever songs you've been practising to a good level, then you have talent.
If you practice & practice until you can't play whatever songs you've been practising any more & are still crap, then you have no talent.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Dandelion' post='1301458' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:20 PM']Can extensive practice ever make up for lack of talent?[/quote]

Yes, as long as you have a certain (modest) level of talent to begin with.

[JTUK]

Depends what you start with..and what can be embellished, and developed, but basically I'd say no to the OP.

Som people can get astonishingly good in a relatively short space of time because they just have IT..others would never get there in a million years.

But the variables are what inate facilities do you have lurking and can develop.

[arthurhenry]

I practice a lot, but I know I'm not the player I would be if I'd had the oppurtunity to play full time from a young age as many of the players we love have. Constant gigs, recording, in a craetive environment all the time, noodling away on a video shoot, bass in your hands 8 hrs a day etc etc. No amount of practice can replictae that I'm sure.

[Truckstop]

Depends on what you think makes a bassplayer good.

Truckstop

[xgsjx]

I think that would be holding down a groove. if you can play all the Jaco solos on your own but have no sense of timing when the band are playing, then I think that's classed as no good.

[Dandelion]

Ok Ta!

Just for the record I haven't been practicing for 50 years, yet.

I guess that there maybe a modicum of hope then.

[escholl]

[quote name='Dandelion' post='1301458' date='Jul 12 2011, 07:20 PM']Can extensive practice ever make up for [extensive] lack of talent?[/quote]
in my case, i really hope so!

[chris_b]

Talent is overrated.

If you practise the right stuff enough you will be as good as most of the people you judge yourself against, maybe not as good as the top 5%, but as good as the other 95%.

That's a good target.

[hillbilly deluxe]

You can practice until you get it right,but you should practice until you cant get it wrong.

[JTUK]

Personally I don't think you should pactice things at all... but you should have your chops up to a level that it all flows.

For that you will need a regime.

[Wylie]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1301467' date='Jul 12 2011, 02:24 PM']If you practice you'll be better than if you didn't practice but that's about it.[/quote]


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