Will this be suitable for my gigs?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1305448' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:00 AM']Understandable... but I would think you could get a MB 102 combo for £550-600 on here.[/quote]
You possibly could. They usually go @ £650 mark but there might be one or two in the for sales that would haggle.

[Evil Undead]

But then we're back to the weight issue. The markbass cmd 102p is awesome, but it's only 2 lbs lighter than my current cab, whereas the GK mb210 is 13 lbs lighter.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305424' date='Jul 16 2011, 03:03 AM']I totally disagree. It's a different sound, I wouldn't say either one was "better" though.

Dave, I'm really surprised that you found the RB thin sounding, I've had the 700 and the 2001 and both were anything but thin. GK are known to be good on the volume front too, maybe there was a fault with the one you tried or the cab?[/quote]

Im only comparing it to my SA450, rather than saying its thin in general.

I did a gig where i used both heads, one per set in to a Epifani UL212 cab. The GK went first and while it sounded good, nice low end and bright up top i found when i switched to the SA450 my tone became thicker, with more punch and an over all roundness the GK just couldn't get.

Neither was a bad tone, just one sounded better to my ears than the other. Oh, and one weighed a hell of a lot less as well.

I got the GK as it was rated higher than my SA450 but i never felt i could push it without it getting dirty.

Edited July 16, 2011 by dave_bass5

[BassBus]

Whatever you buy make sure you buy a trolly like [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Folding-Lightweight-Truck-Trolley-Barrow/dp/B000NTZ2TM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1310809078&sr=8-5"]this[/url]. I too have a dodgy back and put my compact 15" Markbass cab and AI Contra on it with no weight issues whatsoever.

Edited July 16, 2011 by BassBus

[Lozz196]

[quote name='BassBus' post='1305566' date='Jul 16 2011, 10:41 AM']Whatever you buy make sure you buy a trolly like [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Folding-Lightweight-Truck-Trolley-Barrow/dp/B000NTZ2TM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1310809078&sr=8-5"]this[/url]. I too have a dodgy back and put my compact 15" Markbass cab and AI Contra on it with no weight issues whatsoever.[/quote]
+1 - these are definately worth it, I`ve got one that our old band used for the pa, handled the pa speakers no trouble.

[chris_b]

A combo will be heavier than the equivalent separates, which is why I wouldn't get one, and more difficult to upgrade. In any event, definitely get a trolley if you have back problems.

[alexclaber]

I really rate GK's heavier heads - however I'd be very unlikely to recommend one to someone that likes very clean heads like Markbass. They have a very cool output stage with tons of current capacity and really nice behaviour on the limit due to the way the power amp overdrives - but if you don't like growl and grind from your amp head you won't like that. The preamps' 'flat' EQ curve is quite rolled off in the lows and boosted in the highs, so compared to a Markbass with the same knob settings it'll sound thinner and brighter. Crank up the lows and revel in the growl and the 700RBII and 1001RBII are some of the loudest heads on the market and will stomp all over most of the superlight heads (and it'll take a good cab to handle everything they can give). If you want smooth and clean though you will be seriously underwhelmed...

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1305296' date='Jul 15 2011, 10:42 PM']I agree. But so expensive. I can't justify dropping £700-£850 on a small combo, but £475 is more manageable.[/quote]

If you want lightweight and quality it's going to cost. You can't avoid that and buying the GK because it's cheap will inevitably lead to having to upgrade in the future.

You seem to be ignoring all the good advice in this thread except for the one poster you should be ignoring, Thombassmonkey, who will recommend GK at every opportunity because he is a GK endorsee.

Edited July 16, 2011 by DirkThrust

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='DirkThrust' post='1305660' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:13 PM']If you want lightweight and quality it's going to cost. You can't avoid that and buying the GK because it's cheap will inevitably lead to having to upgrade in the future.

You seem to be ignoring all the good advice in this thread except for the one poster you should be ignoring, Thombassmonkey, who will recommend GK at every opportunity because he is a GK endorsee.[/quote]


*eyebrow*

How do you know what advice I've taken and what I haven't?

I've been seriously considering the GK stuff, because I use it at the moment and like it. Not because Thom is a GK endorsee. Although I don't see why that means I should ignore him!

But, as a matter of fact, I've cancelled the order that I placed with GK as I've tried a few more amps out and found one that I like more.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Dirk, there's really no need to be rude.

A) No one should be ignored, it's rude on any level.
The OP said he liked GK amps, therefore it makes sense to suggest another.
C) I like GK enough to associate myself with them. I used GK amps before I was endorsed, I don't get paid by them, I choose to recommend them because they're great amps IMO.
D) You haven't said anything constructive, why is the MB210 so bad?

Tht's exactly the kind of stupid post that winds me up. Endorsees choose to be endorsed because they like the product, it doesn't make my opinion any less valid, if anything it makes it more so because I know the GK range well and I believe it in it enough to associate myself and my band with it.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1305707' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:56 PM']But, as a matter of fact, I've cancelled the order that I placed with GK as I've tried a few more amps out and found one that I like more.[/quote]

What have you gone for, if you don't mind me asking?

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305724' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:07 PM']C) I like GK enough to associate myself with them. I used GK amps before I was endorsed, I don't get paid by them, I choose to recommend them because they're great amps IMO.[/quote]

Yeah yeah, they all say that.

I didn't say the MB210 is bad, but it is a budget amp and will sound inferior to the GK/Harke rig. To make a combo that lightweight at that price point will mean a lot of corners have been cut in build quality.

Constructively speaking the OP wants a lighter rig whilst (presumably) maintaining quality and that is going to cost more money. Buy cheap, buy twice is an unfortunate fact of life. I would suggest looking in the classifieds for a lightweight head like Markbass, TCE, GB, GK and then pairing it with a Barefaced or Markbass cab.

Of course if he wants to buy new and buy now it will be almost impossible to match his existing rig for the budget he is suggesting.

Edited July 16, 2011 by DirkThrust

[ThomBassmonkey]

Why would I choose to be endorsed by a company I didn't like the products of?

The MB210 is a budget amp, it's brilliant for the money but it wouldn't be up to the standards of a more expensive one, but then what do you expect? It's a cheaper amp. Any offerings from any other manufacturer would still be a budget option instead of their premium gear for that price.

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305729' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:08 PM']What have you gone for, if you don't mind me asking? [/quote]


I went up to my local store this morning to try out a Markbass Traveler 102P combo that they have but, besides being a little too heavy for me, they want £1200 for it. I don't have that kind of cash.

So I tried the Promethean P5110 combo, and fell in love with it before I found out the price! It was lucky they only wanted £500 for that one, so I brought it home.

It's 250W as is (8 ohms) which will definitely be sufficient for rehearsals and most likely our usual small gigs, but 500W with an additional 8 ohm cab (which is £250 from GAK). I haven't decided whether to buy the additional cab or not yet, as my old rig was 180W. I may give it a little boost through the P.A. as it has an XLR jack. Best of all, it has a headphone socket, an MP3 in jack, and a mute button, and, it has a little stand jobby on it that enables me to tilt it backwards! Awesome.

It was a really nice beefy sound, and way louder than I expected.

[ThomBassmonkey]

The prometheans look good and I've heard a lot of good things about them. I think you'll find it'll struggle at rehearsal volumes though without an extension cab. The speaker surface area contributes to the volume more than wattage. Even though the wattage of your rig has risen, because you've halved the speaker surface area the volume will likely drop overall.

If you only play quietly with your band, it should be fine. If you're with a rock drummer, you might find you can't hear it so well when everything's playing.

[Evil Undead]

Thanks for your advice dude. I'm curious though. I used to use (about 18 months ago) an Ashdown 180W combo with one 12" speaker and it was loud enough for my gigs with no trouble. I kinda figured that although the speaker size is only 2" in diameter less than the Ashdown, the extra 70W in the Promethean would balance out the volume.

I'm not very good with physics and stuff so although it makes sense to me, it could well be utter horse poo!

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1305872' date='Jul 16 2011, 03:12 PM']I kinda figured that although the speaker size is only 2" in diameter less than the Ashdown, the extra 70W in the Promethean would balance out the volume.[/quote]

That "only 2"" translates to a lot of extra speaker cone area and speaker cone area is probably more important for volume than how many watts you are putting into it so your logic is flawed I'm afraid. There are many factors that contribute to perceived volume and the only way to find out is to try it and see.

Anyway, don't get him started on Ashdown. They're all crap y'know

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='DirkThrust' post='1306091' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:14 PM']Anyway, don't get him started on Ashdown. They're all crap y'know[/quote]

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

However, if you have a problem with Thombassmonkey, please leave it out of my thread. I don't like vicious bitching.

Cheers.

[Lozz196]

Doing the math (as the Americans say):

Surface area of a 10 inch speaker is 241, a 12 is 356, so a 10 is 67% of that of a 12.

I`m sure the technical people amongst us will have more information, about different cones/cabinets etc, I`m just going on speaker cone surface area.

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1306116' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:44 PM']Doing the math (as the Americans say):

Surface area of a 10 inch speaker is 241, a 12 is 356, so a 10 is 67% of that of a 12.

I`m sure the technical people amongst us will have more information, about different cones/cabinets etc, I`m just going on speaker cone surface area.[/quote]




Yikes.

Ok, bottom line... is this not going to be big enough for small gigs without an extension cab, even if I DI it into the PA (as well as using the inbuilt speaker)?

[BassBunny]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1306122' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:51 PM']

Yikes.

Ok, bottom line... is this not going to be big enough for small gigs without an extension cab, even if I DI it into the PA (as well as using the inbuilt speaker)?[/quote]

Simple answer is try it. I had a go on one of these up at a recent Moffat Bass Bash and was astonished at how loud it can go. If you are only using it for on-stage monitoring, I would think you are going to be OK.
If you do go for an additional cab, I would suggest you get the matching cab.
As to if you will like a 10" speaker over a 12 or 15, that is personal choice and you will only find out in a gigging situation.

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='BassBunny' post='1306130' date='Jul 16 2011, 08:02 PM']Simple answer is try it. I had a go on one of these up at a recent Moffat Bass Bash and was astonished at how loud it can go. If you are only using it for on-stage monitoring, I would think you are going to be OK.
If you do go for an additional cab, I would suggest you get the matching cab.
As to if you will like a 10" speaker over a 12 or 15, that is personal choice and you will only find out in a gigging situation.[/quote]


I'll try it at rehearsal tomorrow night. We practice at gig volume so I'll know then whether it will be loud enough or not. I'd rather not DI it as I like my amp to be standalone, but I will if I have to. It was very loud when I tried it at the store this morning, and I played through it when I got home as well, and it was a floor shaker (I live on the top floor)

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1306122' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:51 PM']

Yikes.

Ok, bottom line... is this not going to be big enough for small gigs without an extension cab, even if I DI it into the PA (as well as using the inbuilt speaker)?[/quote]

Without knowing your drummer, it's impossible to say. The drummer in my band is a hard hitter and I don't think I'd get away with 1 12" speaker, I prefer to take my full stack even just for practices to make sure that I have a good sound and better height on the speakers instead of cranking the amp.

If you have a quiet drummer, it might be alright though, especially with PA support.

Good luck and god speed.

Edited July 17, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[alexclaber]

It isn't the speaker size that restricts what a bass cab can handle, it's the volume displacement (Vd). Vd is the product of cone area (Sd) and undistorted cone excursion (Xmax). Doubling Xmax means you can put out as much bass output as a speaker ~2 sizes bigger - so 8" matches 12", 10" matches 15", 12" matches 18". (Or 1x10" matches 2x10", 1x12" matches 2x12" etc...) However Xmax rarely comes cheap! One giveaway for how much bottom a ported cab can produce is the port area (because high Vd speakers move so much air). Of course you could put a big port on a cab with a feeble speaker but that really wouldn't be cricket!

The only way to truly know what a cab can do is to use it in a typically loud rehearsal or gig! So much depends on the tone you like and how your drummer plays. (I've got rather good at predicting this based on answers to numerous questions but it isn't an easy job and you have to understand all parts of the puzzle). Hopefully you'll be ok!