Only a stingray sounds like a stingray

[stingrayPete1977]

Ha! All mine are in there somewhere, I got a free old style MM logo wall paper off the guy who runs it the other day.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305331' date='Jul 15 2011, 11:16 PM']Thats because ones a Sandberg and the others practically a P bass with half a musicman pickup wired as a single coil

If think the OP should not tell us until the clips have been re done to a fresh track with the bass in MM mode even then its possibly ceramic rather than Alnico so It might not have the full MM sound we are listening for, Im still going with the clank on 2 but I have no idea what a ceramic single coil is meant to sound like, Thats probably why so many say number 1 because in truth the Sandy is nearer what most class as the real thing againt the ceramic single coil?

Do you really think people commenting on the difference between a single coil ceramic pickup and an Alnico Humbucker is unfair? I dont.[/quote]

Im confusing myself now the OP says front position so thats series not single coil (or phantom) My mistake ,sorry. So its actually the same as a SUB, OLP or Sterling Ray34 version so all of you that told me they all sound like a real Ray the other peoples comments suggest otherwise

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305352' date='Jul 15 2011, 11:48 PM']Im confusing myself now the OP says front position so thats series not single coil (or phantom) My mistake ,sorry. So its actually the same as a SUB, OLP or Sterling Ray34 version so all of you that told me they all sound like a real Ray the other peoples comments suggest otherwise [/quote]


Some SUBs are actually alnico & parallel, as we established with my SUB5

The OLPs are ceramic, but parallel.

The SBMM Ray34 is *probably* alnico parallel

This starts to look like a thread for MM-nerds only



Regardless all that, I second a suggestion you made earlier to the OP not to disclose the identities, but to repeat the exercise with

1) The SR5, making sure it's in full humbucker, parallel mode. Pity it's probably ceramic and not alnico, but what can we do, it'll still not be fully "Stingray" sound, but that's as close as that SR5 can be.
2) The Sandberg in whatever configuration he deems appropriate

and the options for voting should be:

1) #1 is the SR5
2) #2 is the SR5
3) I can't tell.

Edited July 16, 2011 by mcnach

[stingrayPete1977]

I like your thinking mcnach


Are all the OLP's ceramic then? I think the 34 will be series but even if it isnt the pre amp is different anyway.

How many variations are there?! This is why I stick with standard (proper ) models

[ThomBassmonkey]

OK, to please the fussy buggers, here's two more clips.

This time the Stingray is in the bridge position on the three way. I also A/Bd them and made the Sandberg sound a little more like the ray (not a lot of effort went into this, I just got home after a gig at about 1am, hence the sh*te playing too). They're both DI'd with no modelling or anything altering the tone other than the on-board EQs (and the EQ on the ray is flat).

Nothing has been altered on the backing track apart from bass and the two basses are still the same numbers.

1) [attachment=84806:SvMM.mp3]
2) [attachment=84805:SvMM2.mp3]

I hope I'm not giving too much away when used in conjunction with the first clips. This is just supposed to be a bit of fun, otherwise I'd start a new thread and mix up the numbers for accuracy.

Edit: I've just sorted the volumes of the basses out a bit, they're still messy though, but it's late and I can't be bothered to try and get them perfect between mixing on my ipad speaker, a hifi behind the sofa and the laptop speakers.

Edited July 16, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[Doddy]

Just listened to the new clips.........I stand by my first post. I can't tell which is which-The first has a bit
more midrange,but otherwise they are similar.

[stingrayPete1977]

Still 2 sounds different to mine but how many variables are there? Clip 1 has a more hollow sound to my ears where the second clip has the Ray clarity *but that could be because Im used to the Alnico ray sound and the sandy is clip 2 doing a better impression of what some call a normal Ray?




*caveat

Edited July 16, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1305400' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:35 AM']Just listened to the new clips.........I stand by my first post. I can't tell which is which-The first has a bit
more midrange,but otherwise they are similar.[/quote]

The midrange sounds forced by the preamp rather than inherant from the instrument to me though? Good game though Thom!

[ThomBassmonkey]

A general note about the obvious difference in mids, whether the Sandberg was cut in #2 or boosted in #1, obviously it can go the other way some, that's me missing the mark (quite badly) rather than an inherent sound difference between the two. The EQing was proudly brought to you by knackered post-gig ears, 1am mixing and iPad speaker, crappy speakers behind sofa and laptop speakers, at least that's my excuses haha.

Listening back to them myself and actually knowing the actual instruments, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if someone did a good job of getting the EQ on the berg right. If there was one on a recording without having the other to compare, there's no way in hell I'd be confident at naming which one was on the track (assuming if the Sandberg was used, the aim was to make it sound like the Ray).

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305331' date='Jul 15 2011, 03:16 PM']Do you really think people commenting on the difference between a single coil ceramic pickup and an Alnico Humbucker is unfair? I dont.[/quote]
I never said unfair, just revealing

[acidbass]

After the first set of clips, I was sure the Stingray was number 2, but the second set of clips definitely makes me think number 1. It definitely sounds more bridge-y after being coil tapped (is that the correct phrase?) and the second clip sounds better IMO, therefore it has to be the Sandberg!

Number 1 for me

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Hey Pete, could you send me over that wall paper?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305340' date='Jul 15 2011, 11:29 PM']Ha! All mine are in there somewhere, I got a free old style MM logo wall paper off the guy who runs it the other day.[/quote]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1305416' date='Jul 16 2011, 02:29 AM']I never said unfair, just revealing [/quote]
While we have seasoned players on this site telling me they can hear the difference an Alleva paddle headstock makes yet AFAIK Jimmy hasnt made a pair of identicle basses to compare them A-B Id say we are safe from riddicule for now (just)

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='1305461' date='Jul 16 2011, 08:11 AM']Hey Pete, could you send me over that wall paper?[/quote]
I will do my bestest Mark, Im rubbish with computers so you might have to wait until EBS freak can extract it from the depths of where ever I may of saved it for you

[Rayman]

Clip 1 for me sounds more like my Stingray. It sounds tight and punchy, the tone I like. Clip 2 sounds mid scooped to me, with more top and bottom than the first clip. To be honest, I can get a similar tone to [i]both[/i] clips on my Stingray, but I prefer tone 1 whatever.

But what do I know? I'm an SR5 player.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1305224' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:45 PM']You are correct re: the switch.

The Ray 5 is a Ray though, especially now they are alnico.

The 2 band vs 3 band is subjective. I like both.[/quote]

I prefer 3 band, i have the mids flat, but they don't sound as lost on a 2 band.

For those getting up tight about us trying to figure out what the stingray sound is blah blah blah.

There is a suprising amount of difference between an alnico 4H 3 band and an SR5 H with ceramic coils and in either series or single coil. Even the parallel mode on a ceramic version sounds vastly different to a alnico, due to the lack of depth onthe low end and more pronounced mids.

What ever the answers are, they are meaningless since it isn't a "traditional" ray being heard.
I agree basses sound like basses that sound like basses, but different basses sound like different basses. You really think a solo'd bridge pup on a jazz sounds the same as an EB-0????

[ThomBassmonkey]

I think if people are going to be so choosy about what the Stingray sound is, then there's no point saying "the Stingray sound" because every bass will have it's own sound if it has specific pickups and the electrics are set a certain way.

Saying a stock stingray doesn't sound like a stingray is daft IMO. Either there's a stingray sound or there isn't.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305690' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:43 PM']Saying a stock stingray doesn't sound like a stingray is daft IMO. Either there's a stingray sound or there isn't. [/quote]

I know what you meen but enough people felt the same way about the ceramic SR5 for EBMM to reintroduce the Alnico pup in 2008 for this very reason, Obviously by now all the versions have quite rightly gained their fans for having seperate sounds in their own right, ie the main 3 groups being early Alnico but with true single coil, Ceramic series and now Alnico parallel which is sort of back to the start before the SR5 existed yet the 3 band EQ only came in then anyway, Confuddled.com if your not an MM nerd I should imagine. Ha

[Doddy]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1305646' date='Jul 16 2011, 11:56 AM']What ever the answers are, they are meaningless since it isn't a "traditional" ray being heard.[/quote]
No......it means that all the bravado that people have when they say they can hear a specific
bass a mile off goes out of the window.
I've always said that the player is more important than the bass,and this thread is really
supporting my thoughts.

[stingrayPete1977]

You are all wrong anyway!

[b]This is what a proper Stingray sounds like [/b] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE[/url]


famous for playing a P bass yet clearly used his Rays a fair bit in the studio if you listen to the albums, Even he must of felt the need to honour it in the video this time. As Chris2112 would say this is clearly not played on a dire P bass





The problem with Freddie was he was so shy [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E-WasNzVpI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E-WasNzVpI[/url]

Edited July 16, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1305723' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:06 PM']No......it means that all the bravado that people have when they say they can hear a specific
bass a mile off goes out of the window.
I've always said that the player is more important than the bass,and this thread is really
supporting my thoughts.[/quote]

In true Flea hater style Thombass will reveal on sunday night that both clips were in fact played on a Wal

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305730' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:09 PM']In true Flea hater style Thombass will reveal on sunday night that both clips were in fact played on a Wal [/quote]

Nah, they're both actually on Westone P copies, but shh, don't tell..

(they're not )

Edited July 16, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[Dandelion]

Stingray..

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHLoBsGWxlE&feature=related"]Cult[/url]

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305390' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:15 AM']I like your thinking mcnach


Are all the OLP's ceramic then? I think the 34 will be series but even if it isnt the pre amp is different anyway.

How many variations are there?! This is why I stick with standard (proper ) models [/quote]


Yes, the OLPs are all ceramics, with coils individually linked to a separate volume control, in parallel.
Although some of the first models to come out had a single volume and two tone controls. I had one of them briefly. I can't recall whether the pickup was wired with the coils in parallel or series, because I replaced the pickup with an alnico GFS and of cours I wired it in parallel.

You are right about the Ray34's preamp. But it doesn't sound half bad, from what I can gather.

If there was a Stingray Taliban, I think you'd be hired as a consultant

[mcnach]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305391' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:18 AM']OK, to please the fussy buggers, here's two more clips.

This time the Stingray is in the bridge position on the three way. I also A/Bd them and made the Sandberg sound a little more like the ray (not a lot of effort went into this, I just got home after a gig at about 1am, hence the sh*te playing too). They're both DI'd with no modelling or anything altering the tone other than the on-board EQs (and the EQ on the ray is flat).

Nothing has been altered on the backing track apart from bass and the two basses are still the same numbers.

1) [attachment=84806:SvMM.mp3]
2) [attachment=84805:SvMM2.mp3]

I hope I'm not giving too much away when used in conjunction with the first clips. This is just supposed to be a bit of fun, otherwise I'd start a new thread and mix up the numbers for accuracy.

Edit: I've just sorted the volumes of the basses out a bit, they're still messy though, but it's late and I can't be bothered to try and get them perfect between mixing on my ipad speaker, a hifi behind the sofa and the laptop speakers. [/quote]


I still don't hear a "oh, that's a Stingray for sure!" tone... but if we were going to vote now, I'd vote #2.
I had voted #2 before, so if you maintained the bass-clip# association, then my vote would not change. I still don't hear the "typical Stingray" tone, but if your SR5 has ceramic pickups, that can explain some of that, I guess... and at the very least it would provide some face-saving excuses if you said that the SR5 was clip#1 all along (I do not believe that, 'though... clip #1 never sounded anything like a Stingray to me, before or now).

[ThomBassmonkey]

I'm about to go off to play a fezzie, I'll post the results in the early hours of tomorrow morning.

I don't know whether people will be surprised or not, but I definitely could've done the test better, but I still think it's been a telling excersise, as much socially as on the actual subject. It's surprising how the usual stance of "a stingray's a one trick pony but nothing else sounds like it" suddenly has a page of stipulations attached once it gets put to the test. I know that Stingrays have had different pickups, that the 4 string doesn't have the 3 way etc but I don't think I've ever seen either mentioned when talking about the Ray sound.

In future when people ask "will a g&l sound like a stingray", more questions will have to be asked about the desired sound.

I'll post my proper thoughts about the actual experiment with the results. To sum up without giving the game away, I think my Sandberg is close enough that even an expert wouldn't realise it wasn't a Ray if they were't told and it was EQd to sound like one.