Only a stingray sounds like a stingray

[mcnach]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305690' date='Jul 16 2011, 12:43 PM']I think if people are going to be so choosy about what the Stingray sound is, then there's no point saying "the Stingray sound" because every bass will have it's own sound if it has specific pickups and the electrics are set a certain way.

Saying a stock stingray doesn't sound like a stingray is daft IMO. Either there's a stingray sound or there isn't. [/quote]


THE Stingray sound is alnico/parallel. As found on single pickup 4 string Stingrays from their beginnings.

The various configurations, and even pickup types, on the SR5s are anecdotical and confusing.


I think I am going to start a thread like this using various basses, as it sounds like fun.
I'd use:
1) MM Stingray (4string, traditional blah blah blah ).
2) MM Stingray, same as above, but bypassing the preamp!
3) OLP MM2 with Seymour duncan preamp and SD alnico pickup
4) OLP MM2 passive, with the same SD pickup as above
5) Shine Telecaster with two big fat MM alnico humbuckers... albeit at slightly shifted locations. The bridge one is at the jazz spot
6) Squier Jazz VM bass.
7) Squier Jazz V deluxe 5-string... bridge pickup is located at the Stingray spot
8) MM SUB5, alnico/parallel with traditional 2band preamp.

I think that exercise will probably conclude:
i) we just like basses, and if we don't have a choice... almost any bass will do.
ii) the "Stingray sound" is quite characteristic.

Any interest?

I need to do some recording tomorrow, so I might as well crack on with this if there's any interest.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1305723' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:06 PM']No......it means that all the bravado that people have when they say they can hear a specific
bass a mile off goes out of the window.[/quote]


I think that when people say that, what they really mean is "there is a particular sound that Bass X can make, that you can hear it a mile off".
In other words... you may have 10 clips with a Jazz bass, and not be sure what it is... but there'll be a few clips still with a Jazz bass that have *a* particular sound that allows you to say "THAT must be a Jazz bass".

A Stingray, similarly, can be made to sound a bit "chamaleonic" in the mix... but there is a particular sound that is so typical of it that when you hear it you go "THAT is a Stingray". It doesn't mean you can recognise a Stingray in every situation, only that the Stingray is able to produce a particular sound that is very characteristic, even diagnostic, and it's used widely enough that it becomes known as "the Stingray sound".

or something like that.

[mcnach]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305915' date='Jul 16 2011, 03:58 PM']In future when people ask "will a g&l sound like a stingray", more questions will have to be asked about the desired sound. [/quote]

Well, I can make any two basses sound alike... if I turn down the volume enough

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1305905' date='Jul 16 2011, 03:48 PM']If there was a Stingray Taliban, I think you'd be hired as a consultant [/quote]
You will be first to be hired then as my right hand man dealing with the peasent models that Im less familiar with

Lets hear the clips in your proposed thread mcnach it could be interesting. One thing the pre EB has over the others for me is that this Stingray tone we talk about is its natural tone compared to my others. Bass on full then adjust the treble like a P bass tone pot to suit your RH technique and its there instantly everytime. The SR4 3EQ can get close but its fiddly to nail it all the time so I just enjoy it as a different sound, Yet on the SR5 its good as it compliments the bass well IMO although maybe once I have tried a Classic5 my view will change?

[dc2009]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1305723' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:06 PM']No......it means that all the bravado that people have when they say they can hear a specific
bass a mile off goes out of the window.
I've always said that the player is more important than the bass,and this thread is really
supporting my thoughts.[/quote]

Plus about one million. Also, it's not just the player but how the player chooses to set it up, whether he does various things to the pickup selection etc, and also simple stuff like having a sansamp in the mix, or a different amp, will clearly alter the 'stingray sound'. If the guy you responded to thinks that to have the stingray sound, you have to have it set up in a certain way, then it's a BS notion in my mind.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305498' date='Jul 16 2011, 01:33 AM']While we have seasoned players on this site telling me they can hear the difference an Alleva paddle headstock makes yet AFAIK Jimmy hasnt made a pair of identicle basses to compare them A-B Id say we are safe from riddicule for now (just) [/quote]
I heard one guy on talkbass argue he could hear gold versus chrome hardware I've found if you can see a difference someone can hear it. Take away the visual cues and then people can't tell series from parallel, single coil from humbucker, alnico from ceramic etc...

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305690' date='Jul 16 2011, 04:43 AM']Saying a stock stingray doesn't sound like a stingray is daft IMO.[/quote]
Daft but understandable.

[Monz]

I'm guessing number 1 is an SR5 with the pick up switch in the middle

[escholl]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1306254' date='Jul 16 2011, 10:45 PM']I heard one guy on talkbass argue he could hear gold versus chrome hardware [/quote]
is why i've got a black bridge....I wanted a dark sound!!

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1305915' date='Jul 16 2011, 07:58 AM']It's surprising how the usual stance of "a stingray's a one trick pony but nothing else sounds like it" suddenly has a page of stipulations attached once it gets put to the test.[/quote]
It's not just Stingrays as Fender, Sadowsky, Fodera, Alembic, Wal, Rickenbacker, Smith, Coppola and a million others all have overzealous fans defending their one true tone as unique and special even though individual examples of the same brand sound different.

The page of stipulations that comes up when a test is suggested is very similar to the response of other paranormal claims. You can read about this kind of thing at [url="http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html"]http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html[/url]

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1305940' date='Jul 16 2011, 08:16 AM']A Stingray, similarly, can be made to sound a bit "chamaleonic" in the mix... but there is a particular sound that is so typical of it that when you hear it you go "THAT is a Stingray". It doesn't mean you can recognise a Stingray in every situation, only that the Stingray is able to produce a particular sound that is very characteristic, even diagnostic, and it's used widely enough that it becomes known as "the Stingray sound".

or something like that.[/quote]
That's a much more realistic claim. Though I've found that Stingray sound can be reproduced in non MM instruments. Maybe back in 1980 when the options were more limited there wasn't anything on the market that could nail the tone but now there are many builders using the MM recipe and that gets the same tone to my ears.

My SUB and OLP can both nail a Stingray sound yet they're both passive but real MM's. To me that removes the preamp as a necessary part of the tone.

[LukeFRC]

first time round i voted for number two. on hearing the second set i now think it's number one.
though if I went to a shop and bought by sound I may end up with number 2.

however that another one bites the dust vid... i get stingrays now, the way they sit with the snare and kick drums, like the way a p bass sits in the mix, but different. I like

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='escholl' post='1306269' date='Jul 16 2011, 03:00 PM']is why i've got a black bridge....I wanted a dark sound!! [/quote]
You're joking of course but when it comes to wood many people use the color to describe the tone. Maple is bright, ebony is dark, walnut has more mids and is warmer.

Red guitars are louder than blue ones. Our eyes and other senses and our moods play a larger part in our perceptions than most are willing to admit.

[Dandelion]

It is still number one.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1306294' date='Jul 16 2011, 11:30 PM']Red guitars are louder than blue ones.[/quote]

No.....Black is louder.Red is faster.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1306289' date='Jul 16 2011, 11:26 PM']My SUB and OLP can both nail a Stingray sound yet they're both passive but real MM's. To me that removes the preamp as a necessary part of the tone.[/quote]

Not only that... my Stingray has a bypass switch, and it still sounds "Stingray" when you bypass the preamp.

It's always a pleasure to meet another OLP connoisseur

[ThomBassmonkey]

With 19 to 32 votes, the consensus of the forum was...

drum roll please....

CORRECT!!

The votes were already swinging the right way before I put up the second clip. IMO that shows that whatever some people are saying, it's still a recognisable tone even with the "wrong" settings and pickup material when compared to another H equipped bass when I made no other attempt to make them sound similar.

I think If I'd put up the second clips first and done a better job of EQing, it would've been very hard to differentiate.

Both basses have the same tonal qualities and I bet if shown one of the recordings without the other for the comparison the Sandberg would easily pass for a Stingray, especially once they've been through an amp or modelling.

IMO nothing else will sound like a Stingray because nothing else is a Stingray. But as soon as it's in a mix, I'd seriously doubt even the most experienced experts would get it right every time. It's alright talking about different pickups etc but the two basses used are very very different, the pickup type (in that they're humbuckers, pickup model and placement is different iirc) and a maple neck (not fretboard) are probably the only tonally significant things they have in common so the fact it gets so close speaks for it's self IMO.

I do feel that all the talk about pickup materials is people preparing an excuse for if they're wrong. Sorry if that's not the case but the subject of "does xxx sound like a Stingray" is a fairly common one and I don't think i've EVER seen it questioned what Stingray they're asking about and if they really do sound so massively different it'd be an important fact to find out before being able to reply helpfully.

[mcnach]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1306376' date='Jul 17 2011, 02:40 AM']I do feel that all the talk about pickup materials is people preparing an excuse for if they're wrong.[/quote]

It was an excuse... in jest.

It does make a difference. Not as clear as series vs. parallel, perhaps, but not far off.

The clearest example I experienced was after owning both the alnico and the ceramic version of the 5-string MM humbucker by Seymour Duncan, the SMB5A and the SMB5D. On the same bass (MM SUB5) it clearly made a difference, and only the alnico one gave me *the* sound I wanted to hear.

But I'd say that if the pickup is reasonably close, as long as it's placed at the right spot, then you will get some "Stingrayness". I think position is the single most important factor.

[Prime_BASS]

If I had the resources I would record both my stingray and sterling, I'm pretty sure people would be able to guess which is which, even though they are essentially the same bass, same woods, preamp equipped, MM humbucker equipped. But that's rather simplifing the matter.

Any making comments on pickup type and everything else being an excuse is the same as who ever says that basses sound the same regardless of what's in it, is an excuse because they don't know/don't care/can't tell.

The difference for between me and them is that I do care, as I'm well aware of the differences between a variety of basses. Although I agree the mix has to be relatively clear and transparent. I never knew dougie from mcfly played a sterling, but in a blind test no one would tell since the mix is terrible. On the other hand my first hearing of Midget- the Milgram experiment, I could instantly tell the bass was at least from MM background, and I think so would most other MM fans.

When say stingray I mean 4H, that being the traditional model. When people say Jazz bass you expect traditional single coils, not humbuckers. If I meant stingray but the 5 sting I'd say SR5.

[stingrayPete1977]

Well there you go I was correct on sound clip round one and round two

I can see it has troubled a few people the talk about the pups but I put my neck on the line both times early on, Clip set one was given away by the fret clank straight away, round two was given away by the hollow EQ'd mids mainly yet the clicky clank of a ray was still present for bass #2 too just a bit less.

A lot of people say they can't tell but I would of been very surprised if it had of been clip 1 and would of eaten my cyber space hat, Turns out I can stick with a bacon sandwich after all

Good game though Thom, well done

[stingrayPete1977]

I have just read through from the start and actually I think we all did quite well the first wrong post is #38 Gunsfreddy.

To try and clarify my earlier posts to me both clip 2's sounded nearest to what [i]I would[/i] call a Ray sound so even if they had of come from something else to me those clips would still of been the most Ray to me, The fact they did come from a Ray may hold some weight or it may not



Just to prove you dont need the fret clank to have the Ray sound I give you [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHQtGIF658"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHQtGIF658[/url]

Edited July 17, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1306366' date='Jul 16 2011, 06:04 PM']No.....Black is louder.Red is faster.[/quote]
My bad

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1306376' date='Jul 16 2011, 06:40 PM']With 19 to 32 votes, the consensus of the forum was...

drum roll please....

CORRECT!!

The votes were already swinging the right way before I put up the second clip. IMO that shows that whatever some people are saying, it's still a recognisable tone even with the "wrong" settings and pickup material when compared to another H equipped bass when I made no other attempt to make them sound similar.[/quote]
37% wrong is not proof there is a stingray sound. Only 13 more of the 51 people were right than wrong. We could have all flipped coins and proved the same thing.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1306371' date='Jul 16 2011, 06:21 PM']It's always a pleasure to meet another OLP connoisseur [/quote]
It's a great one after much modding.

[url="http://damprabbit.com/Basses/olp-mm3.html"]http://damprabbit.com/Basses/olp-mm3.html[/url]

Now it has blue fretlight LEDs on it to make it a killer stage bass.

[dc2009]

In that case, I very much prefer the sandberg being made to sound like a stingray than the stingray sound itself.