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Learning Scales.


ROConnell
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Hi all,

I've been playing Bass for around 10 months now. I'm in a band who regularly gig and rehearse so I have learnt to play as a band. We mainly play Post Punk/Punk style so my bass lines are pretty simple with 2 or 3 parts repeated throughout.

However, I am looking to explore more styles so I can create a new sound and generally know my scales and theory.
The problem is I don't know where to start learning them, how to identify them and remembering them.

If anyone could recommend any books, videos and sites on scales to start with that would be a major help.
Also I know teaching would be perfect but right now finances are limited and that will have to wait.
Thanks in advance.

Edited by ROConnell
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If you want a good book for scales, look no further than Stuart Clayton's "Bass Players Guide to Scales and Modes".

I got this book a few weeks ago and it really has opened up the fingerboard for me. Best bass book I've bought in years.

Cheers,
louisthebass

Edited by louisthebass
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[quote name='louisthebass' post='1306609' date='Jul 17 2011, 08:03 AM']If you want a good book for scales, look no further than Stuart Clayton's "Bass Players Guide to Scales ans Modes".

I got this book a few weeks ago and it really has opened up the fingerboard for me. Best bass book I've bought in years.

Cheers,
louisthebass[/quote]


I just tried to find it and found only the e-book version, not the paperback, which was listed 'limited availability.' I'm thinking AmazonUS doesn't have the book ... damn.

Edited by tedgilley
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[quote name='tedgilley' post='1307371' date='Jul 18 2011, 02:21 AM']I just tried to find it and found only the e-book version, not the paperback, which was listed 'limited availability.' I'm thinking Amazon US doesn't have the book ... damn.[/quote]
Best to order it direct from Stuarts website:
[url="http://www.basslinepublishing.com/"]http://www.basslinepublishing.com/[/url]

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[quote name='RhysP' post='1307414' date='Jul 18 2011, 08:10 AM']Best to order it direct from Stuarts website:
[url="http://www.basslinepublishing.com/"]http://www.basslinepublishing.com/[/url][/quote]


Thanks for the nice words about the book guys. You won't be able to get this book on Amazon. Amazon will list anything with a barcode and claim they can get it from you, but at the end of the day, they have to order it from me! As they take all of the profit out of any sales made through them, I chose not to supply them.

The book is only available via www.basslinepublishing.com.

I am currently working on the e-book version, which you will be able to get on iBooks, kindle etc in the near future. There is an e-book version on Kindle at the moment, but it is not quite perfect and I will be replacing it this week.

Stuart

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[quote name='Stuart Clayton' post='1307461' date='Jul 18 2011, 09:27 AM']Thanks for the nice words about the book guys. You won't be able to get this book on Amazon. Amazon will list anything with a barcode and claim they can get it from you, but at the end of the day, they have to order it from me! As they take all of the profit out of any sales made through them, I chose not to supply them.

The book is only available via www.basslinepublishing.com.

I am currently working on the e-book version, which you will be able to get on iBooks, kindle etc in the near future. There is an e-book version on Kindle at the moment, but it is not quite perfect and I will be replacing it this week.

Stuart[/quote]

Hey Stuart! When will the John Entwistle book be back? :)

Also, rather tempted to get the solo arrangements one just so i can get the Space dyed vest one on your site :)

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[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1307671' date='Jul 18 2011, 12:09 PM']Hey Stuart! When will the John Entwistle book be back? :)

Also, rather tempted to get the solo arrangements one just so i can get the Space dyed vest one on your site :)[/quote]

Hey,

Entwistle book is back now - looks like it had accidentally been listed as out of stock for some reason.

Space Dye Vest is not in the Solos book - what I posted on the site is all I ever did of it. I wasn't able to secure copyright to include it so it never got finished. It's on my list of things to finish off though!

Stuart

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[quote name='RhysP' post='1307414' date='Jul 18 2011, 03:10 AM']Best to order it direct from Stuarts website:
[url="http://www.basslinepublishing.com/"]http://www.basslinepublishing.com/[/url][/quote]

Thanks, Rhys.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I joined "Basschat" only recently. This is my first post, so a big "Hi"! to all. :)

Back on topic :

OP, while it is very important to know your scales inside and out, [b]CHORD TONES[/b] are what a bassist plays 95% of the time. I would recommend learning the different inversions of the major and minor chords for a start.

Here are some links that you may find useful.


[url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jeff-Berlin-A-Comprehensive-Chord-Tone-System-for-Mastering-the-Bass-1987"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jeff-Berl...g-the-Bass-1987[/url]




[url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chor...es-are-primary/[/url]

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest bassman7755

[quote name='SlackAlice' post='1306769' date='Jul 17 2011, 03:59 PM']+1

Working my way through this at the moment too - finding it very helpful indeed!

Angie[/quote]

OK at the risk of being contraversial - if you need a book to show you scales then IMO your doing it wrong.

To play any scale in any key you just need to know 3 things:
1) where the notes are so you can locate the scale roots
2) the interval sequence relative to the root note
3) how those intervals translate to the fingerboard

Take C major for example ...

Locate (one of) the root note, lets take the one on the A string 3rd fret.
The intervals are 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th all natural (i.e. non-flattened) since its the plain major scale
on the fingerboard those intervals are: [note that "up" a string means up in pitch i.e. to a thinner string]
up 2 frets on the same string (2nd)
up 1 string and down one fret (3rd)
up 1 string same fret (4th)
up 1 string up 2 frets (5th)
up 2 strings down 1 fret (6th)
up 2 strings up 1 fret (7th)
and then up 2 strings up 2 frets takes you the next C root

The interval knowledge gained by doing it this way also opens up arpeggioes, inversions, chord fragments etc it gets your brain to relate intervals sounds to the physical movement and forces you to learn note positions on the fingerboard. The knowledge of intervals in the scale will help you understand chord structures in songs. This method also requires vastly less rote memorisation than learning shapes on the fingerboard and ensures that your brain and ear develop at the same speed as your fingers.

Edited by bassman7755
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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Coilte' post='1325416' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:25 AM']I joined "Basschat" only recently. This is my first post, so a big "Hi"! to all. :)

Back on topic :

OP, while it is very important to know your scales inside and out, [b]CHORD TONES[/b] are what a bassist plays 95% of the time. I would recommend learning the different inversions of the major and minor chords for a start.[/quote]

Scales and chord tones are only different concepts if you are rote leaning shapes. If you learn intervals in general then one is merely a subset of the other. see my other post.

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Hi,

I wrote the book that the other poster is referring to and I thought I would clarify the intention of the book for you. The book does NOT teach scale patterns. It teaches an approach to learning scales in a highly musical way, all over the fingerboard, with no reliance on patterns whatsoever. Chord tones, arpeggios etc are all cited as being hugely important throughout the book.

What you are saying is true, but in my opinion is simply a different approach to learning the same thing.

Stuart



[quote name='bassman7755' post='1359548' date='Sep 2 2011, 09:40 AM']OK at the risk of being contraversial - if you need a book to show you scales then IMO your doing it wrong.

To play any scale in any key you just need to know 3 things:
1) where the notes are so you can locate the scale roots
2) the interval sequence relative to the root note
3) how those intervals translate to the fingerboard

Take C major for example ...

Locate (one of) the root note, lets take the one on the A string 3rd fret.
The intervals are 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th all natural (i.e. non-flattened) since its the plain major scale
on the fingerboard those intervals are: [note that "up" a string means up in pitch i.e. to a thinner string]
up 2 frets on the same string (2nd)
up 1 string and down one fret (3rd)
up 1 string same fret (4th)
up 1 string up 2 frets (5th)
up 2 strings down 1 fret (6th)
up 2 strings up 1 fret (7th)
and then up 2 strings up 2 frets takes you the next C root

The interval knowledge gained by doing it this way also opens up arpeggioes, inversions, chord fragments etc it gets your brain to relate intervals sounds to the physical movement and forces you to learn note positions on the fingerboard. The knowledge of intervals in the scale will help you understand chord structures in songs. This method also requires vastly less rote memorisation than learning shapes on the fingerboard and ensures that your brain and ear develop at the same speed as your fingers.[/quote]

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Stuart Clayton' post='1359580' date='Sep 2 2011, 10:23 AM']Hi,

I wrote the book that the other poster is referring to[/quote]

I'll get me coat ...

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[quote name='bassman7755' post='1359548' date='Sep 2 2011, 09:40 AM']Take C major for example ...

Locate (one of) the root note, lets take the one on the A string 3rd fret.
The intervals are 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th all natural (i.e. non-flattened) since its the plain major scale
on the fingerboard those intervals are: [note that "up" a string means up in pitch i.e. to a thinner string]
up 2 frets on the same string (2nd)
up 1 string and down one fret (3rd)
up 1 string same fret (4th)
up 1 string up 2 frets (5th)
up 2 strings down 1 fret (6th)
up 2 strings up 1 fret (7th)
and then up 2 strings up 2 frets takes you the next C root[/quote]

Alright......

Now,play a C major scale,ascending, starting on the G string of a standard tuned 4 string bass......your fingering pattern has just gone
completely out of the window.

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Doddy' post='1366809' date='Sep 8 2011, 06:49 PM']Alright......

Now,play a C major scale,ascending, starting on the G string of a standard tuned 4 string bass......your fingering pattern has just gone
completely out of the window.[/quote]


Id see the A and B as 6th and 7th degrees relative to the root on the 5th fret. The intervals I gave were not the complete set that I actually use for instance the there are three 7ths - the one on the same string, the one on the higher and the one on the lower string. Ditto for most of the other intervals.

My system isn't perfect but it is the one that involves the least amount of rote learning which is my weak point. My brain just cant function with note names in real time. The way I hear and play is ll based in keynotes and note functions.

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Anthony Wellington and Victor Wooten making some sense:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnA0AQYrHg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnA0AQYrHg[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-GMSKM_HkE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-GMSKM_HkE[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s[/url]

Edited by chris_b
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[quote name='bassman7755' post='1359548' date='Sep 2 2011, 09:40 AM']OK at the risk of being contraversial - if you need a book to show you scales then IMO your doing it wrong.[/quote]

For me personally I don't believe I am doing it wrong.


[quote name='Doddy' post='1366809' date='Sep 8 2011, 06:49 PM']Alright......

Now,play a C major scale,ascending, starting on the G string of a standard tuned 4 string bass......your fingering pattern has just gone
completely out of the window.[/quote]

....and that's exactly what I wanted to learn and with the help of Stuart's book I'm doing just that - rather than just playing a pattern from the root note (which I've relied on for years!) I decided I'd like to know the actual notes in the scale and be able to play them anywhere on the fretboard - over 1 string, 2 strings or over all 4 strings.


[quote name='bassman7755' post='1367142' date='Sep 8 2011, 11:29 PM']My system isn't perfect but it is the one that involves the least amount of rote learning which is my weak point. My brain just cant function with note names in real time. The way I hear and play is ll based in keynotes and note functions.[/quote]

If you got a system that works for you then great stuff - it's all down to personal preferences. I personally wanted to brush up on the theory side of things, know what notes I'm playing in the scale, how the circle of 5ths works, chord structures etc........and I'm loving it! It really has opened the fretboard up for me (whereas before I rarely ventured past the 7th fret). It continues to be a huge learning curve for me - it's going to be a long journey but it's one I'm thoroughly enjoying. :)........my biggest regret is that I didn't do this years ago!

Angie

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Learning these patterns is very useful but you need to internalise the sounds of the scales as, depending on the music you are playing, thinking in neat little boxes will only get you so far. Once you get into more advanced playing, you rarely use a scale in the way you learn them in the early days. If you want to sound contemporary, you will have to start chopping them up with chromatic passing notes, tri-tome substitutes and conscious dissonance. Then the shapes can be a hinderance and the sounds become more useful to you. So, learning scales is not about the scale itself but how it sounds when you are playing it in the context of a performance. A lot of basic learning is like learning to spell. You eventually develop the skill to spell/pronounce any word but you still need to understand what it means to be able to use a word in a sentence and you still need to have something to say to give the process value.

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As a poster who has got Stuart's book, he only [i]suggests[/i] a certain number of ways to play the scales in the book - it clearly states that the user finds their own way of playing them & learn the content of the scales (in other words, learning the entire fingerboard). I'm still on the first section of the book & it [i]is[/i] a challenge, but that's why I bought the book in the first place.

I thought I knew my scales & arpeggios, but this book has proved that I don't know as much as I thought I did :)

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[quote name='chris_b' post='1367214' date='Sep 9 2011, 01:05 AM']Anthony Wellington and Victor Wooten making some sense:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnA0AQYrHg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnA0AQYrHg[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-GMSKM_HkE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-GMSKM_HkE[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s[/url][/quote]

These are great videos. Thanks!

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