Got wood?

[Fat Rich]

My experience is limited to Status basses, I'd say that graphite necks have more bite and note definition than wooden necks. Mine have an astonishing amount of sustain and ooomph, and the harmonics really ring out clearly and are easy to find. I also find graphite neck basses seem to take on the character of the strings more than wooden necked basses, sounding very different if I put Slinkys, DRs or Hotwires on.

The older Status necks are completely rigid and have no truss rod, they sound brighter and a bit clattery to my ears. Your technique has to be very good or you'll get a lot of fret buzz.

The newer ones have a less rigid neck and a truss rod, you can add a bit more relief if you want but the neck is still very stable and doesn't need adjusting for climatic or moisture changes. I think the less rigid neck takes some of the edge off the sound but you still have lots of sustain, harmonics and note definition. Again you need a fairly clean technique but less so than for the completely rigid necks.

There's pretty much no way you're going to get a traditional Fender / Stingray / Rik / whatever type sound out of a graphite necked instrument which is why I have a Fender for that. But for a modern sound graphite can't be beat in my opinion, shame it's so expensive!

You can specify wooden fingerboards, rosewood adds a bit of warmth whereas the maple seems to give the bass more projection acoustically than the standard phenolic boards.




This one is a graphite skin body with an alder core and has a more traditional sound but with a bit of bite:



Hope that makes some sense!

Edited July 18, 2011 by Fat Rich

[dc2009]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1307703' date='Jul 18 2011, 12:33 PM']I'd say that graphite necks have more bite and note definition than wooden necks. Mine have an astonishing amount of sustain and ooomph, and the harmonics really ring out clearly and are easy to find. I also find graphite neck basses seem to take on the character of the strings more than wooden necked basses, sounding very different if I put Slinkys, DRs or Hotwires on.

There's pretty much no way you're going to get a traditional Fender / Stingray / Rik / whatever type sound out of a graphite necked instrument which is why I have a Fender for that. But for a modern sound graphite can't be beat in my opinion, shame it's so expensive![/quote]

Have to agree with all of this - never owned one myself but have had enough playing experience with them to agree.

[dc2009]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1307437' date='Jul 18 2011, 09:07 AM']Both myself and Bassassin own Talbo Basses.

They are listed on the [url="http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=17&category_id=6&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31"]Tokai UK web site[/url] so you should be able to get a Tokai dealer to order one for you. They're not cheap though with a list price of £899.

However all the Talbo Basses I've seen for sale new in the UK have what I consider to be excess casting marks on the body (compared with the ones I've seen in Japan) which make me wonder if its the less than perfect examples which are being imported. I bought mine second hand from Ishibashi and the body is much cleaner than the ones I've seen in the UK.

The other thing to watch is that the aluminium body is hollow and although it's packed with foam can be prone to feedback which is something that has been a problem for Bassassin. I've not used mine outside the studio, so I've not come across this.

The sound is big and punchy, but I think that's more down to the pickup and pre-amp fitted rather than any inherent total qualities of the aluminium body. It's got a nice fast neck and balances nicely and of course looks great.[/quote]

Ouch, was hoping for under 500 but I guess that was optimistic to say the least. I'd love to try one of these for a future GAS attack no doubt - are you or Bassassin coming to the surrey/se bash?

[Prime_BASS]

Thanks Fat Rich, definatly provided some clear in sight.

[johnDeereJack]

The body of my Cort Curbow 5 string is made of finest Luthite!
Luthite - Sounds like it could take down a Superhero at 200 yards!

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthite"]Luthite on Wikipedia[/url]

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='johnDeereJack' post='1307966' date='Jul 18 2011, 03:29 PM']The body of my Cort Curbow 5 string is made of finest Luthite!
Luthite - Sounds like it could take down a Superhero at 200 yards!

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthite"]Luthite on Wikipedia[/url][/quote]

Interesting stuff, Wikipedia says it doesn't sound like any tonewoods.... so how does it sound?

[Chris2112]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1307454' date='Jul 18 2011, 09:17 AM']I'd also see if you can try an Enfield bass with a carbon fibre neck as these are made by Simon Farmer of Gus using his carbon fibre over light-weight tone wood construction, and IMO combine the structural advantages of carbon fibre with the more traditional tonal qualities of wood.[/quote]

I absolutely love these basses. I fell in love with them the moment I saw them. Never seen one for sale second hand though, sadly.

[4000]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1307101' date='Jul 17 2011, 09:22 PM']Dude, he played a Jaydee on that album - even though the cover shows a Status. [/quote]

Yup, he did indeed.

[Undercoverlover]

Ovation Magnums use carbon fibre in the neck, they're a pretty funky bass with tons of low end.

I like the Magnum 3 the most .

[url="http://www.ovationguitars.com/archive/guitar/magnum_3_1263"]http://www.ovationguitars.com/archive/guitar/magnum_3_1263[/url]

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1308004' date='Jul 18 2011, 03:56 PM']Interesting stuff, Wikipedia says it doesn't sound like any tonewoods.... so how does it sound?[/quote]

He-he. I wrote part of that!
It sounds like the same sort of plastic/resin that they make ten-pin bowling balls out of. It's related, apparently.
It's not especially heavy, nor super lightweight. It's heavy enough to counter-balance a slim Ibanez neck when mounted on a Jazz-esque EDB600 body. In terms of it not resonating at bass-frequencies, I'd say that it probably has a resonant frequency outside of the audioband. That would account for its lack of "obvious" character. On the other hand, it's sufficiently "stiff" that it doesn't damp any particular freqeuncies either!

In real terms, it sounds like nothing, really. The pick-ups, Pre-amps, Strings (as stated previously) and neck all make a greater contribution to the tone.
That may be good in some ways, but means the instrument might sound a bit bland to some. If you fitted a carbon fibre neck to one, it would sound decidedly devoid of character. If it had a phenolic fingerboard, even more so.

[Crimson Guitars]

At Crimson Guitars I’ve not yet had the pleasure of working with carbon fibre, although plans are afoot and I hope to be offering utterly bespoke, burn-the-mould one-off carbon fibre guitars and basses some time in the next few year, watch this space! From a sound point of view I agree that instruments made entirely of cf with phenolic resin fretboards have a definition and clarity of tone but can be lacking in character, as a guitar builder though I have to say that the material an instrument is made from is only a part of the equation, the strings, pickups, setup and playing style each have an equal effect on the final tones you achieve.

I feel that the best way to get great tone is to use wood, it’s done alright by us so far hasn’t it? The ideal carbon fibre bass, in my opinion, will have a core of wood, even if that core is just a carbon-fibre skinned through-neck type design with most of the body (and maybe even some of the neck) being hollow. You gain some definition and clarity of tone from the carbon fibre and create character and warmth with a tone-wood neck and, maybe, fretboard. The massive variety of woods available to even the laziest luthier would enable them to play with the tones as usual while creating much stronger more stable custom guitars or basses in the process. I’m really looking forward to trying all of this out!

Now, the part of this topic that no one is really talking about... acrylic or perspex basses. Crimson Guitars were lucky enough to build several acrylic basses for [url="http://www.crimsonguitars.com/charlie-jones-perspex-bass"]Charlie Jones[/url], he uses the successful one with Goldfrapp among others and has been playing perspex bodied basses for 13 or so years (as far as I can recall from a conversation quite some time back at least.) Our original attempt was doomed to failure from the start, we thought that using two truss rods we would be able to make a bass entirely out of resin.. a clear neck looks amazing but is way to weak and in the end tuning stability suffered terribly.

The end result was an acrylic body with a bolt on maple and walnut multi-laminate neck with an acrylic headstock. We had Wizard pickups make us a custom clear cast pickup and all the hardware had clear bits and pieces. I had the acrylic cast especially for the project with pearlescent glitter suspended throughout and, due to the massive weight of the standard acrylic offerings I carved, and carved.. the final result was still heavy in comparison to a standard bass but was very manageable.

Now, tone, in my opinion this bass was the best I’ve heard by a long shot. Now, I must say I concentrate mainly on guitar building at Crimson Guitars and only take on the occasional bass, (mainly because I’m known for guitars, I think, and bass players tend not to pick up the phone.. ) anyway, justifications over and I still say that when used properly as a body material perpex or acrylic is the perfect choice. It is relatively soft and seems to transmit the string movement almost immediately and has everything you could ask for tone-wise.. just listen to Goldfrapps new album if you don’t believe me! I built a timber version of the [url="http://www.crimsonguitars.com/vintage-re-wound"]bass[/url] and, while this sounded perfectly fine, the acrylic monster just seemed to have more of everything; the bass, mids and treble all just sing and it was at least 30% louder.
I don’t expect everyone to stump up the cash these highly bespoke basses and materials cost but there is a place for them, if made well by people who actually think about what the end result needs to be; stable, ergonomic, playable and above all sonically pleasing!

Edited July 18, 2011 by Crimson Guitars

[BigRedX]

I was lucky enough to play the all-acrylic Charlie Jones bass when you were showing it at the LGS some years back. It looked fantastic (especially the impregnated glitter) but I seem to remember it being massively heavy. Also from my PoV it was a rather boring P-bass shape (but then again I wasn't the customer.)

One thing that bothers me about all the acrylic guitars and basses no matter what the price is the finish of the internal surfaces. The exteriors are always polished smooth, but the interiors such as the pickup and control cavities and the wiring channels - whether it's a Wesley cheapy or something custom made - always look rough and of course because the instrument is see-through it's really obvious. Is it possible to get the same finish on these internal surfaces? Or is it more effort than it is worth?

BTW it is possible to make stable instruments cast in a single piece from a man-made material. I own a Switch Innovo bass which is made from a single casting of a material called Vibracell. It's a bass with a lot of potential. The sculpting of the neck and body is very ergonomic and comfortable. It is however let down by some rather bland EMG pickups.

Edited July 18, 2011 by BigRedX

[BigRedX]

According to the [url="http://www.tokaijapan.com/talbobass.html"]Tokai Japan[/url] web site the "metal finish" one is nickel plated, the coloured versions are lacquered. The hardware is all standard chrome plated stuff and fitted using what looks like chromed bolts.

I've not noticed any reaction between the various metal parts - I've owned this bass for almost 5 years now. I've also got a Talbo Jr Guitar with the same finish on the body that I've had since 2002 and that doesn't show any signs of reactions between the various parts.

However the nickel plating on the Talbo bass body seems to have reacted slightly with the adhesive of a sticker that used to be attached. It wasn't visible in any of the photos that were originally on the Ishibashi web site, but when the bass was transferred to there web sales department before it was shipped to me it was noticed and they sent me some new photos pointing it out. I got a reduction in price as a result and TBH when the bass turned up it was only barely noticeable if you knew where to look.

I hope that answers any concerns that you might have. I guess if you want to see what the longer term durability is like then you should try and seek out one of the original 80s versions because if there are going to be any inter-metal reactions it ought to have shown up on those by now.

[johnDeereJack]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1308004' date='Jul 18 2011, 03:56 PM']Interesting stuff, Wikipedia says it doesn't sound like any tonewoods.... so how does it sound?[/quote]

It's really quite bright actually. A lot brighter in tone than my Jazz (ash/maple) or my active fretless Larkin Reacter (mahogany/ebony)
That may be because of the Luthite body & Ebanol board, the Bart pup & circutry or a combination of all but like Lfalex mentioned it doesn't really have an obvious tone unlike, for example, the aforementioned mahogany body/ebony board combo.
Either way I like it for both looks and sound and it suited the style of music I was playing at the time.

[Dave Vader]

Surprised Johnston hasn't pointed us at this yet.
BRX, I know how much you love Teles, this is just for you...

[url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele-build-challenge/263778-scatter-lees-2011-tdpri-build-challenge-thread.html"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele...nge-thread.html[/url]

Oh and the ampeg armstrong....





Cool biscuits.

[dc2009]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1308852' date='Jul 19 2011, 09:56 AM']According to the [url="http://www.tokaijapan.com/talbobass.html"]Tokai Japan[/url] web site the "metal finish" one is nickel plated, the coloured versions are lacquered. The hardware is all standard chrome plated stuff and fitted using what looks like chromed bolts.

I've not noticed any reaction between the various metal parts - I've owned this bass for almost 5 years now. I've also got a Talbo Jr Guitar with the same finish on the body that I've had since 2002 and that doesn't show any signs of reactions between the various parts.

However the nickel plating on the Talbo bass body seems to have reacted slightly with the adhesive of a sticker that used to be attached. It wasn't visible in any of the photos that were originally on the Ishibashi web site, but when the bass was transferred to there web sales department before it was shipped to me it was noticed and they sent me some new photos pointing it out. I got a reduction in price as a result and TBH when the bass turned up it was only barely noticeable if you knew where to look.

I hope that answers any concerns that you might have. I guess if you want to see what the longer term durability is like then you should try and seek out one of the original 80s versions because if there are going to be any inter-metal reactions it ought to have shown up on those by now.[/quote]

The nickel plated one is properly tasty. A lottery win and I'd be right on that!
Which is yours?
I assume being nickel plated though it gets properly toasty in the sun?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1308937' date='Jul 19 2011, 11:17 AM']Surprised Johnston hasn't pointed us at this yet.
BRX, I know how much you love Teles, this is just for you... ;)

[url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele-build-challenge/263778-scatter-lees-2011-tdpri-build-challenge-thread.html"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele...nge-thread.html[/url][/quote]
What are we supposed to be looking at here? I'm sorry but I don't have the stomach the wade through 22 pages of Telecasters ;-) so if you could link the the relevant posts using the permalink function that would be great!

[quote name='dc2009' post='1308954' date='Jul 19 2011, 11:34 AM']The nickel plated one is properly tasty. A lottery win and I'd be right on that!
Which is yours?
I assume being nickel plated though it gets properly toasty in the sun?[/quote]
Here's a couple of photos of mine:





I've never notice that the body gets any warmer in sunlight than any other of my basses...

BTW the area affected by the sticker is on the upper arm contour. Can't you stop it?

Edited July 19, 2011 by BigRedX

[matski]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1307703' date='Jul 18 2011, 11:33 AM']There's pretty much no way you're going to get a traditional Fender / Stingray / Rik / whatever type sound out of a graphite necked instrument[/quote]

*adopts pantomime audience voice* "Oh yes there is!"

[attachment=85092:DSC02132.jpg]

[dc2009]

BRX you know that is properly effing cool don't you? Thing looks amazing!

[Dave Vader]

This one, sorry BRX, the thread has a load of stuff about polishing out the routing holes to get it as clear as possible, thought you might be interested, despite the tele content.



Oh, and this one, which I thought was nicer and more tasteful. Though still a tele, and a guitar, on a bass site, I'll get my coat...

[Aero]

[color="#0000FF"][i][quote name='Fat Rich' date='Jul 18 2011, 12:33 PM' post='1307703']
My experience is limited to Status basses, I'd say that graphite necks have more bite and note definition than wooden necks. Mine have an astonishing amount of sustain and ooomph, and the harmonics really ring out clearly and are easy to find. I also find graphite neck basses seem to take on the character of the strings more than wooden necked basses, sounding very different if I put Slinkys, DRs or Hotwires on.

The older Status necks are completely rigid and have no truss rod, they sound brighter and a bit clattery to my ears. Your technique has to be very good or you'll get a lot of fret buzz.

The newer ones have a less rigid neck and a truss rod, you can add a bit more relief if you want but the neck is still very stable and doesn't need adjusting for climatic or moisture changes. I think the less rigid neck takes some of the edge off the sound but you still have lots of sustain, harmonics and note definition. Again you need a fairly clean technique but less so than for the completely rigid necks.

There's pretty much no way you're going to get a traditional Fender / Stingray / Rik / whatever type sound out of a graphite necked instrument which is why I have a Fender for that. But for a modern sound graphite can't be beat in my opinion, shame it's so expensive![/i][/color]


I'd beg to differ with the last comment.

I get a great live P-Bass and jazz tone from my modded basses with graphite necks.
I would say they do sound a little clearer though, with these active EMGs, when recorded.
With passive pickups I can't hear much difference.
For me , the main difference is in how they feel , resonate and respond to your playing style, and thats a matter of taste (Marmite anyone)








I'd say theres more difference between using a through-neck or all graphite bass than a bolt on graphite neck.


My Status 2000 is unforgiving when it comes to fingerstyle but it can do a good impression of most bassess




Fran

Edited July 19, 2011 by Aero

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1309050' date='Jul 19 2011, 12:49 PM']This one, sorry BRX, the thread has a load of stuff about polishing out the routing holes to get it as clear as possible, thought you might be interested, despite the tele content.

[/quote]
That's exactly what I was on about regarding the polishing of the interior surfaces. Any idea where abouts in the thread I should look for the discussion of how that was done?

That's a nice piece of work - IMO it's a pity that it was all for such an otherwise conventional instrument. 8-)

There's a fair number of luthiers using some interesting materials to make guitars and basses so it always saddens me to see them being unimaginative when it comes to the overall design. That's what I like about the Tokai Talbos - their a bold design as well as the use of a different material rather than wood.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Aero' post='1309653' date='Jul 19 2011, 09:04 PM']I'd beg to differ with the last comment.

I get a great live P-Bass and jazz tone from my modded basses with graphite necks.
I would say they do sound a little clearer though, with these active EMGs, when recorded.
With passive pickups I can't hear much difference.
For me , the main difference is in how they feel , resonate and respond to your playing style, and thats a matter of taste (Marmite anyone)

I'd say theres more difference between using a through-neck or all graphite bass than a bolt on graphite neck.


My Status 2000 is unforgiving when it comes to fingerstyle but it can do a good impression of most bassess


Fran[/quote]

Fair enough, I haven't spent much time with a graphite necked J, P or 'Ray and although I saw your Aerodyne at the London Bass bash it was too loud to hear it properly.

Very tasty basses by the way!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1310358' date='Jul 20 2011, 02:46 PM']If he'd been more adventurous it wouldn't have met the rules of the competition

I have visions of you turning into the Grinch every time someone mentions telecasters

I think all the internal cavities were done just like the outside. Elbow grease and working the way through the grades of paper and rubbing compound.

[url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele-build-challenge/263778-scatter-lees-2011-tdpri-build-challenge-thread-4.html#post3138723"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele...tml#post3138723[/url]

[url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele-build-challenge/263778-scatter-lees-2011-tdpri-build-challenge-thread-4.html#post3139379"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/2011-tdpri-tele...tml#post3139379[/url][/quote]
Thanks!

I actually read all the way through the thread and was most impressed with the quality of the build - just disappointed at the basic design (but then as you pointed out the competition was all about building a Telecaster shaped guitar).

IMO acrylic is much better served when used in a more radical design like this:


or this:


Now that I know it can be done, I'm going to expect so much more from custom guitars and basses made from acrylic. On a £100 Wesley it's forgivable, but on something custom like the Charlie Jones bass as we can see there is no excuse.

[fretless]

Halfpenny worth on carbon/wood

Check out details of my iceni zoot bass (basschat - bass for sale - 7.3.2011 " zoot fretless" )

This bass designed to offer tone/feel of real wood fretboard (nice piece of ebony) and stability + even tone of carbon neck, no horrid dead spots and excellent intonation with great tuning stability. My experience is that if the bass is subject to significant temp/humidity changes(playing on outside(hopefully covered) stage in glorious british summer weather ie hacking down with rain),the tuning does "go out" but is rarely more than a 1/4 tone and is always "out"by the same amount across all the strings.

I know Mike Walsh (maker of Iceni Zoot custom basses) sent quite a few carbon neck basses abroard where players were having to contend with major heat/humidity issues which made "normal" wooden necked basses a nightmare to play/maintain.

Interesting comment earlier in this topic re impossibility of combining wood fretboard with carbon neck ... on my bass there has never been any evidence of the fingerboard / neck join coming apart ...however there is a cosmetic issue with the varnish finish across the edge of the carbon neck and edge of the ebony fretboard - caused by the natural expansion /contraction of the ebony board whereas the carbon neck does not move at all. I believe Mike designed later basses with a very slight overlap on the ebony fingerboard relative to the neck and then took the varnish up to the overlap - don't know if this stopped the varnish finish "cracking" or not. Anyhow, an entirely cosmetic issue and you still have the feel of a proper wood fretboard rather than the "phrenolic or whatever alternatives...

I tend to agree with previous comments about sound ie strings/playing style/pick-ups/amp and even playing environment are likely to have more influence on the tone you produce than the construction - especially if you are playing a bass with a decent electronics. I went down the carbon neck route to avoid deadspots, get long sustain and good neck stability - attributes of carbon which seem generally acknowledged by most posts here.


you know what they say - there's only one bass player in most bands for a reason !!!@@