Wylie Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've been playing and practicing quite a bit lately, and also had to play guitar at two gigs this past week. Somehow, gripping the guitar, and especially making barre chords, sprained my thumb: the ball of my left thumb is quite sensitive, and I feel a stabbing pain if I stress it at all. Even buttoning my shirt too forcefully sends a sharp pain through the ball of the thumb. I can still play the bass, but it's touch and go. And I'm left-handed! Any advice? Any medics out there? This has never happened to me before, and I've got plenty of gigs coming up. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I don't play bass that much so i don't think i'm in danger of getting that. Maybe you ought to go see your doctor (if you can afford it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 You shouldn't be gripping the neck,you should be using it as a balance and pivot point. You should be able to lift your thumb from the back of the neck and still play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1309187' date='Jul 19 2011, 02:25 PM']You shouldn't be gripping the neck,you should be using it as a balance and pivot point. You should be able to lift your thumb from the back of the neck and still play.[/quote] So where is the equal and opposite force required to fret the notes coming from, or do you temporarily suspend physics for the purposes of playing bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1309266' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:33 PM']So where is the equal and opposite force required to fret the notes coming from, or do you temporarily suspend physics for the purposes of playing bass?[/quote] Doddy is right in a way, most injurys like this are caused by excessive pressure usually the thumb or the heal of the hand, you will be suprised how little pressure is needed to fret a bass properly if your fretting finger, positioning is in the right place. I have spent a lot of time getting my hand position right, rists straight etc. Its tricky at first, but if you pay attention to it, it comes round in the end. My advice would be lay of playing for a few days, then go back to it, this time think about getting into a comfortable position with your fretting hand and try to fret the bass with as little pressure as possible. For me keeping my thumb pad-flat on the back of the neck is most comfy. I know playing live is difficult to do this as you tense up, but be aware, take a deep breath and try to relax reduce pressure and go back to the comfy way you fret during your practice time. You need to develop a different hand style for bass, don't try and fret like a Guitar. Have a look at Dave Marks on You tube he's got some sage advice on how to avoid injury. If it is still hurting I am afraid its Doctors time. Many Bass players have to give up playing later on, because they didn't pay attention to this and do permanent damage, don't be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1309266' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:33 PM']So where is the equal and opposite force required to fret the notes coming from, or do you temporarily suspend physics for the purposes of playing bass?[/quote] The force required doesn't have to come directly from the thumb. Here is a simple diagram: F is the fretting force of the finger. This force is opposed by N1 which is the force of the players body on the body of the bass. T is the tension in the strap which opposes the moment effect of the fingering force (the pivot point is where force N1 is acting). P is the friction of the strap on the back of the player's body which opposes T in the x-direction and N2 is the player's body pushing on the strap at the back which allows friction to occur. Edited July 19, 2011 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have been suffering pain in my thumbs for about a year now, I thought it was just my bad technique, but it turns out that I have arthritis in my hands. I've since had two cortisone injections in my right thumb, and one in the left one, which were unbelievably painful, and unfortunately, they don't seem to have made much difference. The specialist is now considering a joint replacement in each thumb, which he reckons are usually successful, and takes away all of the pain, but you do tend to lose around 20% of the strength in them though. I do hope that this is not the case with you, and is something that will heal pretty quickly. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks for the help. To be clear, as I said originally, it was playing the guitar that got me into trouble, not playing the bass; I know how to hold the bass. I think when i get over this I'll just stay away from the guitar! TG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1309445' date='Jul 19 2011, 05:55 PM']F is the fretting force of the finger. This force is opposed by N1 which is the force of the players body on the body of the bass. T is the tension in the strap which opposes the moment effect of the fingering force (the pivot point is where force N1 is acting). P is the friction of the strap on the back of the player's body which opposes T in the x-direction and N2 is the player's body pushing on the strap at the back which allows friction to occur.[/quote] Good luck with that. I would imagine the force is actually coming from your picking hand levering the bass neck into your fretting hand. I appreciate that not much force is required to stop a note on the bass and some people might over-do it, but this business about not using any pressure at all from your thumb is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1309610' date='Jul 19 2011, 08:38 PM']Good luck with that. I would imagine the force is actually coming from your picking hand levering the bass neck into your fretting hand.[/quote] Well there you go. You've clearly contradicted your original point that it's not physically possible to fret a note without any pressure from your thumb. Yes you could use the force of your other hand as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1310064' date='Jul 20 2011, 10:45 AM']Well there you go. You've clearly contradicted your original point that it's not physically possible to fret a note without any pressure from your thumb. Yes you could use the force of your other hand as well.[/quote] I think we've had issues before where you hadn't read my posts properly. I would recommend - again - you go back and read it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1310178' date='Jul 20 2011, 12:00 PM']I think we've had issues before where you hadn't read my posts properly. I would recommend - again - you go back and read it again.[/quote] No. You asked where the equal and opposite force came from. I answered that question, you answered that question and now you're telling me you didn't ask that question in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1310367' date='Jul 20 2011, 02:50 PM']No. You asked where the equal and opposite force came from. I answered that question, you answered that question and now you're telling me you didn't ask that question in the first place.[/quote] I asked where the force was coming from, I didn't state that it had to come from the thumb of the fretting hand. Your last two posts seem to represent two different understandings of what the topic of conversation is. I would now recommend you review the entire thread before posting again, paying specific attention to your own replies which are beginning to diverge in baffling ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1310400' date='Jul 20 2011, 03:10 PM']I asked where the force was coming from, I didn't state that it had to come from the thumb of the fretting hand.[/quote] Well that's what you implied, seeing as you suggested that without the force from the thumb of the fretting hand there would be no opposing forces to the action of the fretting finger whatsoever. I really do not see how your original post could possibly be interpreted in any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1310409' date='Jul 20 2011, 03:15 PM']Well that's what you implied, seeing as you suggested that without the force from the thumb of the fretting hand there would be no opposing forces to the action of the fretting finger whatsoever. I really do not see how your original post could possibly be interpreted in any other way.[/quote] Obviously. Anyway, now the O.P. will not be left to wonder how we all magically hover our bass necks whilst fretting notes. Hey, perhaps we can all have our left thumbs surgically removed so they don't get in the way of the heel joint in high positions. It's not like we're using it for anything, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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