Getting A Better Jazz Bass Tone

[spongebob]

Had a rehearsal with the current band last night. It's a 5-piece, rock/pop covers.

The two guitarists are both quite loud, so I have to make sure I cut through!

For the previous rehearsals, I've been playing a MIM 50's P-bass. Always cut the mustard.

Yesterday, I was playing my (recent used purchase) Geddy Lee Jazz. Had one a couple of years back and loved it - probably my favorite bass I've owned.

My amp set-up is a Markbass Amp (121) and extension cab.

I'm really bad on amp settings - most are set at 12 o'clock, with a dash more high, and both filters off. I've done a little research on settings - but unless their in 'clock' mode, I get confused!!

This worked fine on the P - but I found myself buried with the Jazz for some reason. I tried turning up the mids, but that just sounded awful to me.

What can I do with the amp settings to improve this? Just want a bit more clarity high-end (both D &G strings were very weak when band in full-force) and bottom thump. Doesn't help as the rehearsal room suffers with quite a muddy tone as well - but the P cut right through.

Appreciate the pups are weaker on the Ged, but I don't remember having this problem before with the same gear!

Any advice on this please?

[brick]

do you have both pick ups at full vol on your your jazz bass

[spongebob]

Yes - and the tone on full as well.

[Machines]

Personally i'd cut the bridge pickup off, get it sounding like a P bass .

[brick]

[quote name='spongebob' post='1309247' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:17 PM']Yes - and the tone on full as well.[/quote]

having the pick ups both on full might be the reason why you are not being able to cut through in the mix, try cutting the vol slightly on one of the pickups this should give you a bit more punch and clarity

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Machines' post='1309257' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:25 PM']get a P bass .[/quote]

Fixed

Oh, and surprisingly, roll back the tone control a bit too, that often gives you a thump to get through the band, along with the dropping one of the pickup volume advice.

[Wil]

I like to roll the bridge pickup off a touch for pick playing, or roll the neck off a touch for finger playing. Brings the mids out nicely. Both pickups on full sounds a bit scooped, which is a nice tone in itself but can get lost in the mix.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1309277' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:39 PM']Oh, and surprisingly, roll back the tone control a bit too, that often gives you a thump to get through the band, along with the dropping one of the pickup volume advice.[/quote]


This is true.

I usually roll either the neck or bridge pickup off a tad and then adjust the tone to taste. Mainly
getting to that stage where there's loads of fundamental but the treble has a little bit of bite.

[spongebob]

Thanks all for that.

I'm mostly a pick-player, so I'll roll that bridge back a bit and adjust the tone as described.

Any suggestions on what I can do with the Markbass EQ on the amp? Everything at 12?

[Wil]

On my F1 I like to either keep the EQ flat, and use a touch of the VPF filter (less than a quarter turned up) OR I might leave the VPF off and just boost the bass a touch. If the top end is too bright I might roll the VLE filter up a touch too. It depends what cab I'm using and the room, really. Small adjustments

I'm not strictly using a jazz either, I've got a P at the neck and a soapbar at the bridge, wired like a jazz. Gets close soundwise though.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Wil

[Doddy]

I use the bridge pickup on full with maybe a quarter front pickup and the tone on full.

[KevB]

I've gigged in a 5 piece (twin guitars) rock covers and I know what you mean. Can be quite difficult getting that niche in the tonal range that doesn't overlap too much. I tend to use my jazz (if PU's are separate) on 75% neck and 25% bridge, tone usually about half way. However I got a US jazz with S1 switch and often ended up with it in S1 mode all the time, certainly gives it a bit more balls for rock. As for EQ on the rig I haven't played through a rig yet that didn't sound better with a bit of extra definition from my Hartke VXL Bass Attack, thoroughly recommend these.

[Fuzzbass2000]

I'm gigging with 2 loud guitars and a thumping drummer. Love playing my J, but after 2 years & several pick-up swaps, I just couldn't ever seem to get it to sit right in the mix. I'm back to my P with a Squier Jag as a backup.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Fuzzbass2000

[gjones]

I have had a few Jazzes and I currently own a Geddy Lee. Try different strings DR Hi beams are great with Geddy's and also Fender 750 strings. That trick of reducing the volume of the back pickup does add a bit of low mid to the sound and that may help. Geddys do lack a bit of punch due to the thin maple neck they have fitted (I've swopped to a rosewood neck and it makes a big difference to the sound and adds a lot more bottom end). I also own a Precision and I know what you mean about the presence they have in the band mix. Unfortunately you'll never be able to replicate that Precision punch with the Geddy (great bass that it is).

[Prime_BASS]

Make sure the pickup height are optimal for your playing.

Generally the space between the bottom of the string to the magnets should be around 2-3 mm with the lower strings being further away.

Personally on a jazz bass, I'd role off the neck pickup altogether. On the amp boost lows, lowmids, highmids and cut the highs a little bit. This will give you a more aggressive cutting through sound.

It depends how you play. Unless you a quite aggressive fingers guy a flat EQ on a jazz with everything on full, can get quite lost, as the attack doesn't give a lot mids and the pickups naturally scoop the Mids out. Rolling giving bias to either pickup usually helps.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1309909' date='Jul 20 2011, 07:01 AM']Make sure the pickup height are optimal for your playing.

Generally the space between the bottom of the string to the magnets should be around 2-3 mm with the lower strings being further away.[/quote]

But as the OP is a pick player, strings that close may wack the pickups and make a noise when they do so.

I tend to roll back one of the volume controls slightly, depending on what I'm playing, and also roll off a bit of the tone. The pups in my Jazz sounded a bit thin, so I chucked in some Wizard Hammers and that made alot of difference!

[dan670844]

[quote name='spongebob' post='1309211' date='Jul 19 2011, 02:48 PM']Had a rehearsal with the current band last night. It's a 5-piece, rock/pop covers.

The two guitarists are both quite loud, so I have to make sure I cut through!

For the previous rehearsals, I've been playing a MIM 50's P-bass. Always cut the mustard.

Yesterday, I was playing my (recent used purchase) Geddy Lee Jazz. Had one a couple of years back and loved it - probably my favorite bass I've owned.

My amp set-up is a Markbass Amp (121) and extension cab.

I'm really bad on amp settings - most are set at 12 o'clock, with a dash more high, and both filters off. I've done a little research on settings - but unless their in 'clock' mode, I get confused!!

This worked fine on the P - but I found myself buried with the Jazz for some reason. I tried turning up the mids, but that just sounded awful to me.



What can I do with the amp settings to improve this? Just want a bit more clarity high-end (both D &G strings were very weak when band in full-force) and bottom thump. Doesn't help as the rehearsal room suffers with quite a muddy tone as well - but the P cut right through.

Appreciate the pups are weaker on the Ged, but I don't remember having this problem before with the same gear!

Any advice on this please?[/quote]



Maybe a a problem is a lot of Rock guitarists are wanna be bass players! most of the time the more distorted you go with a 6 string the more you should cut the bass. Otherwise its a wall of noise! (I have even struggled to hear the kick drum with some of the bands I have seen!) have a word maybe they are in your space in the mix. Also for a jazz you want that classic sad face rock tone, to compete with loud guitars push up your mids more to cut through. This is a common problem with a jazz and loud guitars, it's a more refined instrument, where a p is just ballsy. and has a lot more mid content. With a jazz certain amps work better than others in this situation, not sure of the markbass, but a trace head flat with a jazz will cut through pretty well as 'flat' its very middy. But another amp may not as it may be more scooped, as flat eq is never flat on a bass amp! try fiddling with you mids its there you just have to find it. The P is a great bass for loud rock, but so can a jazz if you eq right, you will find more fidelity and complexity.

Edited July 20, 2011 by dan670844

[mcnach]

[quote name='brick' post='1309271' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:37 PM']having the pick ups both on full might be the reason why you are not being able to cut through in the mix, try cutting the vol slightly on one of the pickups this should give you a bit more punch and clarity[/quote]



indeed.

I tend to start with both on, then back off the neck pickup until it cuts through enough (bridge pickup alone is very nasal-cutting, so you may just use teh bridge one, or blend a *bit* of neck to tame it somewhat). That works for me. Both pickups on sounds great alone, but if you have a lot going on, with two loud guitars etc, it is hard to be heard well unless the guitarists back off certain frequencies to give you space... and in real life, how many guitarists are willing to do that?
Yup... that's when the bridge pickup alone helps a lot. It may not be beautiful alone, but it'll give you a fat cutting tone if you experiment a bit.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1309909' date='Jul 20 2011, 07:01 AM']Make sure the pickup height are optimal for your playing.

Generally the space between the bottom of the string to the magnets should be around 2-3 mm with the lower strings being further away.

Personally on a jazz bass, I'd role off the neck pickup altogether. On the amp boost lows, lowmids, highmids and cut the highs a little bit. This will give you a more aggressive cutting through sound.

It depends how you play. Unless you a quite aggressive fingers guy a flat EQ on a jazz with everything on full, can get quite lost, as the attack doesn't give a lot mids and the pickups naturally scoop the Mids out. Rolling giving bias to either pickup usually helps.[/quote]



+1 on everything except the 2-3mm clearance for teh pickups. I don't find you need to have them too close to the strings: you want higher output? then turn up. Use EQ. For my taste, pickups on guitars/basses always sound better when relatively far from teh strings (certainly 5mm or more), but I suppose that playing style may also play a big part, I think I'm a little on the aggressive side (fingerstyle)

[Wil]

+1 on pickup height being set so they're not too close to the strings. I also find a higher action and heavier strings can result in a fuller tone, in general.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Wil

[Conan]

[quote name='Wil' post='1310068' date='Jul 20 2011, 10:46 AM']+1 on pickup height being set so they're not too close to the strings.[/quote]

If the pickups are too close to the strings, then the magnetic field will actually interfere with the vibration of the strings and reduce sustain, volume and tone! There is a happy medium of course, which will depend on the string gauge and how hard you play - but I would say that 5mm or so was about right.

[cheddatom]

I always used a schecter with soab bars, both pickups about even with tone flat.

I recently aquired a new bass with jazz pups and i'm using this with no neck, all bridge and EQ flat. It sounds amazing!! I use a lot of pedals etc so i've always "cut through" but this jazz has taken it to new levels. You might find that the lack of low end from the bridge pup gives you more headroom to turn up your amp, which obviously will help too.

Edited July 20, 2011 by cheddatom

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1310048' date='Jul 20 2011, 10:33 AM']+1 on everything except the 2-3mm clearance for teh pickups. I don't find you need to have them too close to the strings: you want higher output? then turn up. Use EQ. For my taste, pickups on guitars/basses always sound better when relatively far from teh strings (certainly 5mm or more), but I suppose that playing style may also play a big part, I think I'm a little on the aggressive side (fingerstyle)[/quote]

I'm quite aggressive, the G string is just over 2.5mm away from the magnet and the E is about 3.1-2 mm away. It just doesn't sound the same at distances like 5mm. The lower notes especially don't sound as hollow. I prefer to get it right at the bass cause you can always turn down, but you can't add what isn't there.
OP will definatly get more Present mids with a closer pickup to string spacing. Particularly on pickups close to the bridge as the vibration isn't as forcefull so you can have closer.

Also being a pick player wouldnt make much difference, I'm fingers and I generally have a "louder" attack than most pick players. Unless they absolutely thrash the strings.

I'm aware that the magnetic field can interfere with the strings, however I'm merely stating that this is right for me and my stingray.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Prime_BASS

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1310275' date='Jul 20 2011, 01:35 PM']Also being a pick player wouldnt make much difference, I'm fingers and I generally have a "louder" attack than most pick players. Unless they absolutely thrash the strings.[/quote]

IMHO, even if you don't thrash the strings, you're still possibly going to have them hit the pup. Higher tension strings may stop this, but it's not guaranteed.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1309277' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:39 PM']Fixed

Oh, and surprisingly, roll back the tone control a bit too, that often gives you a thump to get through the band, along with the dropping one of the pickup volume advice.[/quote]


+ 1 on that!!