Toasted Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315095' date='Jul 24 2011, 08:40 PM']No, but you do have to be able to accept that I'm not going to join the fawning masses just because of the name on the headstock. An average jazz bass with massive price tag doesn't really make sense. I'm struggling to think of a Sandberg I've played that wasn't more impressive than a Sadowsky in almost every regard.[/quote] Oh look, Toasted is proved correct again. I really must find out what it feels like to be wrong one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well, it's not my fault Sadowsky makes an average product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315829' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:29 PM']Well, it's not my fault Sadowsky makes an average product! [/quote] Definitely not the opinion of many of the world's greatest bass and guitar players unfortunately. Will Lee, Mike Elizondo, Walter Becker, Dave Bronze, Marcus Miller, John Patitucci, Daryl Stuermer, Willie Weeks and that's just the tip of the iceberg really! As far as I'm aware (with the probable exception of Will Lee and Walter Becker) endorsements from Sadowsky don't really exist, which means that these very capable and longstanding pros are investing their money in a product that they like. Not liking a product is one thing, but I doubt anyone could argue that Sadowskys are an average product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1315860' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:52 PM']Definitely not the opinion of many of the world's greatest bass and guitar players unfortunately. Will Lee, Mike Elizondo, Walter Becker, Dave Bronze, Marcus Miller, John Patitucci, Daryl Stuermer, Willie Weeks and that's just the tip of the iceberg really! As far as I'm aware (with the probable exception of Will Lee and Walter Becker) endorsements from Sadowsky don't really exist, which means that these very capable and longstanding pros are investing their money in a product that they like. Not liking a product is one thing, but I doubt anyone could argue that Sadowskys are an average product.[/quote] ^^ well said - I have owned both a Sandberg - PM4 and currently own a Sadowsky Metro P+J. The Sandbergs are very nice basses, well put together quite a bit cheaper now than Sadowsky and I could understand them being chosen on this basis and someone being very happy with a Sandberg. For me however Sadowsky's are truly great all round basses basses that really come alive when gigged. The eq is very powerful the tone is a great mix of cutting through and holding down the low end. The quality of fit finish etc is exceptional and I would not be without mine. A lot of dosh - yes, but worth it yes - all imho of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) I've had two Sadowsky's, a NYC and a Metro and though both were fine basses I haven't got either of them now, which I guess is telling. I also had a Clover Avenger bass which I preferred over the Sadowsky Metro (I had them both at the same time a few years back). The Clover was a five string and try as I might I can't get on with anymore than four strings! Wouldn't mind a Clover Avenger four string though..... Edited July 25, 2011 by alanbass1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I really like my Sadowsky PJ. Its the "best" PJ I've ever played or owned...and believe me, I spent years with a great vintage Fender mongrel. A few things set it apart for me - pickups that work together well, no single coil hum, the J pickup sounds like a good J. The P sounds like a good P. The circuit is fantastic on gigs, but doesn't sound as hyped up as most active basses. The fret work is truly wonderful, and the truss rod is easily adjustable, and reacts as you want it to. It also looks like a Fender so I don't get funny looks because I turn up with a sculptured work of art for a wedding gig. It seems to me that Sadowsky has simply applied years of learning in set up and repair, to what he feels most players want from a Fender bass. And he's done it very well. Yes, they are expensive, like many other good instruments..but they are also not made/assembled in large factories. I couldn't/wouldn't buy one new, but I'm very grateful to the BassChatter who traded mine. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_bass Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I spent a couple of years thinking about buying a Sadowsky & finally picked up a Metro on the forum back in April. It's the best jazz bass I've played. I don't think the name on the headstock really comes in to it too much. In my neck of the woods only one other bassist that I've come across since acquiring it has heard of Sadowsky to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1315860' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:52 PM']As far as I'm aware (with the probable exception of Will Lee and Walter Becker) endorsements from Sadowsky don't really exist, which means that these very capable and longstanding pros are investing their money in a product that they like. Not liking a product is one thing, but I doubt anyone could argue that Sadowskys are an average product.[/quote] But then you could say the same of any high end bass builder; they are in business because people pay for their instruments. I feel there is a much more convincing case to be made for Sadowsky basses being average than simply saying you don't like them. They're not unplayable wrecks, but they're not spectacular either. As far as jazz basses go, they are a fairly average product. Very expensive and no better than the cheaper competition these days. Perhaps this was not the case 15 or 20 years ago, in fact I can quite imagine that was the case before the boutique jazz bass took off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315953' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:02 PM']But then you could say the same of any high end bass builder; they are in business because people pay for their instruments. I feel there is a much more convincing case to be made for Sadowsky basses being average than simply saying you don't like them. They're not unplayable wrecks, but they're not spectacular either. As far as jazz basses go, they are a fairly average product. Very expensive and no better than the cheaper competition these days. Perhaps this was not the case 15 or 20 years ago, in fact I can quite imagine that was the case before the boutique jazz bass took off.[/quote] The problem is that you're expressing your opinions as fact. And you know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315953' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:02 PM']But then you could say the same of any high end bass builder; they are in business because people pay for their instruments.[/quote] I think it has less to do with that and more to do with [u]why[/u] such big names are buying their instruments. I know of many high-end bass brands but I can't think of many with such an extensive and varied artist roster. My point is that the names that keep cropping up who have bought Sadowskys are people that have been around for years and are quite frankly the least likely musicians on the planet to buy products that are 'average'. Walter Becker for example: probably one of the biggest audiophiles in popular music and notoriously one of the most demanding people to work with. Sonic clarity and perfection mean everything in his music. You think he'd be okay taking average gear to the studio and to live performances? Something doesn't add up there. Couple this with my personal experience of Sadowsky as a company and the 'average' argument just doesn't really work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1315976' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:25 PM']Walter Becker for example: probably one of the biggest audiophiles in popular music and notoriously one of the most demanding people to work with. Sonic clarity and perfection mean everything in his music. You think he'd be okay taking average gear to the studio and to live performances? Something doesn't add up there.[/quote] But then you must consider that everyone doesn't like the same things. I love Status Graphite basses, I always have and I consider them 'the best' at what they do. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who dislike headless basses, dislike the graphite sound, dislike the image etc etc. So what works for me doesn't work for everyone else. However, I've played plenty of high end jazz basses though typically they are not what I'm after. Looking at it objectively, Sadowsky basses have always struck me as average as far as jazz basses go. Surely a case of different vinegar strokes for different folks, as Roger has had order books filled out for his basses over 20 years now. But they've never really impressed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315998' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:34 PM']But then you must consider that everyone doesn't like the same things. I love Status Graphite basses, I always have and I consider them 'the best' at what they do. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who dislike headless basses, dislike the graphite sound, dislike the image etc etc. So what works for me doesn't work for everyone else. However, I've played plenty of high end jazz basses though typically they are not what I'm after. Looking at it objectively, Sadowsky basses have always struck me as average as far as jazz basses go. Surely a case of different vinegar strokes for different folks, as Roger has had order books filled out for his basses over 20 years now. But they've never really impressed me.[/quote] You've summarised what I've been in agreement with all along... it's personal preference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1315998' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:34 PM']But then you must consider that everyone doesn't like the same things. I love Status Graphite basses, I always have and I consider them 'the best' at what they do. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who dislike headless basses, dislike the graphite sound, dislike the image etc etc. So what works for me doesn't work for everyone else. However, I've played plenty of high end jazz basses though typically they are not what I'm after. Looking at it objectively, Sadowsky basses have always struck me as average as far as jazz basses go. Surely a case of different vinegar strokes for different folks, as Roger has had order books filled out for his basses over 20 years now. But they've never really impressed me.[/quote] you cant really look at peoples opinions objectively can you. but it is good to see that you are now expressing your opinions as that. opinions fair enough they are not for you but as you said order book full for some time to come , in this thread alone far more positive than negative , I suspect you are in a very small minority with your opinion, doesnt make it any less valid just that people looking for opinions should consider the whole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sadowsky's certainly sound pretty 'average' to me...I'm sure they play nicely and all that but they just sound like another modern take on a jazz bass. I've only heard one Sandberg in the flesh, but it had more of a woodier, individual sound to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1316161' date='Jul 25 2011, 07:53 PM']I've only heard one Sandberg in the flesh, but it had more of a woodier, individual sound to my ears.[/quote] If I bought a bass that sounded woolly I would take it back ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='loudandclear' post='1316173' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:00 PM']If I bought a bass that sounded woolly I would take it back ![/quote] But it wasn't woolly, it was woody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It always intrigues me to see how passionate some people are about not liking Sadowsky basses, to the point that every discussion about Sadowsky on this thread ends up as a mud-slinging match between those that own/like them and those that consider them overpriced/overhyped/average sounding/generic sounding. Not that it isn't entertaining its just about the third time in last year it has happened. Perhaps if the price of Metros continue to rise, the debate will become even more heated! Personally, I can't don't like Warwick basses. However every time a thread opens up about Warwicks and I do not feel the urge to tell the story about that one time I tried a Thumb and a Streamer in a shop and didn't like them, which of course means that all Warwicks are overpriced, have uncomfortable necks and deliver a distinctly underwhelming sound compared to what I was actually expecting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='thodrik' post='1316203' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:24 PM']Personally, I can't don't like Warwick basses. However every time a thread opens up about Warwicks and I do not feel the urge to tell the story about that one time I tried a Thumb and a Streamer in a shop and didn't like them, which of course means that all Warwicks are overpriced, have uncomfortable necks and deliver a distinctly underwhelming sound compared to what I was actually expecting![/quote] I think it's because a Warwick is it's own thing whereas a Sadowsky is a take on another well-known bass, so there's more of a direct comparison to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='thodrik' post='1316203' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:24 PM']Personally, I can't don't like Warwick basses[/quote] Thodrik in 'some people don't like certain basses' shocker! As for loudandclear, he's 'clearly' pissed as he seems to be unable to use grammar or even read what people are posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Chris2112' post='1316219' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:41 PM']Thodrik in 'some people don't like certain basses' shocker! As for loudandclear, he's 'clearly' pissed as he seems to be unable to use grammar or even read what people are posting![/quote] Well, that is the case isn't it? You pretty much said as much before when you mentioned Status basses (and don't get me started on them ) Also, LawrenceH I understand your point on the Warwicks, but I think that the Sadowsky is more of its own thing than people give it credit for. In fact I think that is a reason why some people do not like them. They see something that looks like a Fender and when it doesn't handle or sound like one, they go away disappointed and dismiss the bass as average/generic/rubbish. Edited July 25, 2011 by thodrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinewoods Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1316006' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:39 PM']You've summarised what I've been in agreement with all along... it's personal preference![/quote] That´s it ! + 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Pinewoods' post='1316262' date='Jul 25 2011, 09:04 PM']That´s it ! + 1000[/quote] Pretty much + 1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='thodrik' post='1316257' date='Jul 25 2011, 09:00 PM']They see something that looks like a Fender and when it doesn't handle or sound like one, they go away disappointed and dismiss the bass as average/generic/rubbish.[/quote] Yeah this is definitely part of it. Though that's fair enough given what it looks like and Sadowsky's pedigree in the world of Fender repairs/mods! If they had a custom shape then even with the exact same pickup configs then people would see them as different. But, sound-wise, I honestly haven't heard anything that would distinguish their own 'signature' sound as distinct from any old jazz with aftermarket pickups/pre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1316219' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:41 PM']Thodrik in 'some people don't like certain basses' shocker! As for loudandclear, he's 'clearly' pissed as he seems to be unable to use grammar or even read what people are posting![/quote] Simple mistake on my part - but oh my I do seem to have hit a nerve ! Still all good fun ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1316343' date='Jul 25 2011, 09:38 PM']Yeah this is definitely part of it. Though that's fair enough given what it looks like and Sadowsky's pedigree in the world of Fender repairs/mods! If they had a custom shape then even with the exact same pickup configs then people would see them as different. But, sound-wise, I honestly haven't heard anything that would distinguish their own 'signature' sound as distinct from any old jazz with aftermarket pickups/pre.[/quote] Surely you would notice the difference between the Sadowsky, a Sandberg and a Fender Deluxe though? Granted, the differences between a Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Xotic and other US designed 'modern jazz' that is endorsed by some 'legendary' session guy are more minimal though. I just personally noticed a massive difference in sound between the Sadowsky and the Sandberg when hearing them side by side. Not that one was better, but both having totally different sonic qualities. I might be getting overly anal about it though. My guitarist brother just said 'they both sounded like four string bass guitars'. Maybe the generic quality to the modern jazz thing was what I liked. I was looking for a Fender-type Jazz based instrument that was solid, reliable, had a great tone and would be able to cut through the mix no matter what, without the need for any additonal eq pedals etc. Basically Jazz version of my late 1970s Precision which was being retired from gigging. It might sound like a rubbish criteria when shopping for a bass, but I do not regret the choice I made, and I tried a lot of basses before I settled on the Sadowsky, including a few Sandbergs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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