Class D Amps

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1313666' date='Jul 23 2011, 11:35 AM']Looking at the invoice the parts and labour were around £70 and the rest was shipping the amp to and from Germany for the repair.[/quote]

The breakdown is not really relevant though. It still cost about 10% of list.


[quote name='BigRedX' post='1313666' date='Jul 23 2011, 11:35 AM']And you just have to look at all the horror stories on here about people taking their gear to what is supposed to be reputable tech and it coming back only partially fixed or worse. And then wonder why I wouldn't prefer to send my very expensive amp back to the manufacturer to be fixed.[/quote]
Fair point. It makes sense to return very complex products to the designer/manufacturer. But it' expensive, that's all.


[quote name='BigRedX' post='1313666' date='Jul 23 2011, 11:35 AM']In the end you pay your money and take your choice.[/quote]

Indeed. Though with modern, complex and highly-integrated consumer-electronics the servicing choices are somewhat limited.

[stingrayPete1977]

How can the breakdown not be relevant Flyfisher when BigRedX told you £70 was the repair and £130 the shipping? I think that's pretty good TBH.

[flyfisher]

I meant that the breakdown is not relevant to the overall cost. We could make a guess at and even more detailed breakdown, but it doesn't change the overall cost of the repair:

Capacitors £0.67
Labour £58
Shipping £108

Subtotal £166.67
VAT @20% £33.33

TOTAL = £200


Why do you think the breakdown is relevant?

[stingrayPete1977]

Because it shows the majority (£130) has nothing to do with class D, A, valves or solid state. The postman doesn't care

[markstuk]

Except the valve jobbie would cost more to post :-) although of course the argument is that you could take it somewhere local :-) Is it me or is this all getting a little circular? [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1314683' date='Jul 24 2011, 12:44 PM']Because it shows the majority (£130) has nothing to do with class D, A, valves or solid state. The postman doesn't care [/quote]

[ficelles]

[quote name='chrisd24' post='1313640' date='Jul 23 2011, 11:10 AM']My phil jones briefcase started making a popping cracking noise,as i brought it second-hand and it was out of warranty I took it to an amp tech who found out it was something in the digital power phase, he could probably fix it but phil jones wouldn't give him the schematics and do all their repairs in house so i have to send it to their distributor for repair..... apparently about £200 - £250 so I'm not sure if I'm even going to bother. The moral of the story is a lot of manufacturers wont give out these details so a lot of gear will ALWAYS have to go back to them for repair which will undoubtedly always be expensive.[/quote]

Old TL Audio kit has a similar scenario... there is apparently a single technician in posession of the schematics and tech manuals and he won't hand them out to anyone. When my FAT-2 needed recalibration my local amp guy couldn't do it as he couldn't get the info, so it ended up going to the official guy who charged me £135 to adjust some trim pots Given that you can pick those particular units up for £150 or so on fleabay fully working, if I'd known the "repair" cost in advance I'd have just bought another and kept the old one for spares...

ficelles

[flyfisher]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1314683' date='Jul 24 2011, 12:44 PM']Because it shows the majority (£130) has nothing to do with class D, A, valves or solid state. The postman doesn't care [/quote]

Ah, I see your point, though I'd still argue that the return shipping is more likely to be necessary with a complex class-D amp than a 'conventional' one, unless you have lots of very competent amp techs in your neck of the woods with the skills to deal with SMD boards.

[JTUK]

hmmm they probably wouldn't bother assuming they even could....and that is the situation the manufacturers would like. IMO
It keeps the service in house, gets a virtual monopoly by stealth etc ect...

It puts me off these small amps.. even though I was very impressed with the RH750

[BigRedX]

I think the arguments for independent amp tech versus manufacturer repair depends upon a lot of things.

Manufacturers know their product. Small manufacturers that also build their amps in house instead of getting a factory somewhere in the far east will have all the facilities on hand to do the repairs quickly and easily. Small manufacturers are also interested in keeping their customers happy (something a bigger manufacturer like Ashdown seem to be a bit hit and miss at).

Sending your amp to an independent tech makes sense if:
1. There is a local tech. If you're going to have to ship it then it might as well go back to the manufacturer.
2. The tech has the knowledge and schematics to fix your amp or a good relationship with the manufacturer. Once again there's no point giving to a tech if it's going to sit in the workshop untouched for weeks while they are waiting for schematics or specialist parts.
3. The tech knows what they are doing has an excellent reputation and will charge a fair price for the amount of work and replacement parts.

For me that's too many variables, and in my case I believe that I made the right choice, and ultimately I was happy with the outcome. Someone else in different circumstance might have been able to go a different and maybe cheaper route and still go the same outcome - who knows?

BTW the total repair cost wasn't just for the fault that I was aware of but also fixed a couple of issues that I hadn't realised were problems but certainly made an improvement to the amp once they had been addressed and in fact the parts and labour for these were greater than those for the fault for which I had returned the amp.

[dan670844]

[quote name='Alec' post='1312386' date='Jul 22 2011, 09:34 AM']The problem with the modern class D amps is their very complexity and density of components. This means that in most cases, when failures occur, all that can be done is to switch out and replace a whole board/module. Fine in principle, albeit potentially costly to the consumer, but you're stuffed a few years down the line when spares cease to be available.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a complete convert to the new, lightweight bass kit. But I *know*, that a fault in my old Trace combo would generally be a piece of cake to fix, as it's all discrete components, tidily laid out. Never did have a fault. But in kit like that, if you are capable of diagnosis & replacement, parts are typically in pennies. Compare this with £10s, if not £100s, for a replacement module in a modern amp.[/quote]

+1 I agree and with other posters about Trace elliots and Valve amps etc its just how you design and make stuff, the whole world is heading down the route of throw away design that is difficult to fix its not really a question of the amps topography i.e. class A to H. People are not prepared to pay that bit extra for something of quality or that has a renewable design i.e. that can be repaired. This is best illustrated by the amount of light switches and plugs I have replaced in our new house. Go to Homebase / Wickes etc and buy a lightswitch and they are so cheap like 59p or something but they are crap and don't last, the switches always go, the missus is not that heavy handed ha ha!. I would be quite happy to pay £4-5 pounds for a quality one but you can't can't 'cos MK have gone out of business because of this cheap crap as people are just thinking about the price. Its false economy in the end and and these cheap switches still use nearly as much plastic in its production, but you get through far more of them, the whole world is like this now.

[Alec]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1315666' date='Jul 25 2011, 01:10 PM']I would be quite happy to pay £4-5 pounds for a quality one but you can't can't 'cos MK have gone out of business because of this cheap crap as people are just thinking about the price. Its false economy in the end and and these cheap switches still use nearly as much plastic in its production, but you get through far more of them, the whole world is like this now.[/quote]

Er, don't think MK have gone bust at all!

[url="http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/mk-range/cat830656"]MK stuff at ScrewFix[/url]

Do agree about quality vs cheap, buy once, suffer the pain of spending once, and then sit back & enjoy the right product. And, for MK stuff, not as expensive as you'd think: £1.09 for a single light switch, £3.91 for a dual 13A socket. Compared with all the decorative, but poor quality stuff you can get, really not that expensive. And *so* much easier to install, and will last forever.

Back on topic, I and some mates have some basic skills, so can replace kit reasonably. A good example was an active subwoofer at my local venue that had died. Took just 10 mins to identify a faulty resistor, replacement cost 60p, and a quick resolder job. Compare that with the cost of return to an authorised agent - who might well have replace the whole amp unit, for around £200 & shipping... Obviously, as said before, needs the local skills.

One of the big problems with the "just replace the module" approach is the relatively short support life for these products, after which the spare modules are no longer available - at which point you're stuffed. At least when you're repairing at the component level, that tends not to happen.

[dan670844]

[quote name='Alec' post='1315951' date='Jul 25 2011, 05:00 PM']Er, don't think MK have gone bust at all!

[url="http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/mk-range/cat830656"]MK stuff at ScrewFix[/url]

Do agree about quality vs cheap, buy once, suffer the pain of spending once, and then sit back & enjoy the right product. And, for MK stuff, not as expensive as you'd think: £1.09 for a single light switch, £3.91 for a dual 13A socket. Compared with all the decorative, but poor quality stuff you can get, really not that expensive. And *so* much easier to install, and will last forever.

Back on topic, I and some mates have some basic skills, so can replace kit reasonably. A good example was an active subwoofer at my local venue that had died. Took just 10 mins to identify a faulty resistor, replacement cost 60p, and a quick resolder job. Compare that with the cost of return to an authorised agent - who might well have replace the whole amp unit, for around £200 & shipping... Obviously, as said before, needs the local skills.

One of the big problems with the "just replace the module" approach is the relatively short support life for these products, after which the spare modules are no longer available - at which point you're stuffed. At least when you're repairing at the component level, that tends not to happen.[/quote]


Cheers, you have just saved my life!