Song writing?

[JPAC]

Another odd question; When it says on the label 'written by', does that mean they wrote all notes for the songs for all of the instruments? ie, If they were the bass player, do they write for the drums, keyboards... etc?

[skankdelvar]

No. Though they might have.

[stingrayPete1977]

Also these modern pop stars will try and do a deal with the original writer where they swap one word or something similar and agree to share the credit to give them credibility with fans who think people like Cheryl Cole have some form of skill!

[bobbass4k]

Unfortunately not. The "lesser" musicians usually get shafted by label deals. Often it's whoever wrote the main riff or the recognisable melody or the such, the bassist and drummer could write their parts entirely and not get credit for it.

[BigRedX]

Which is why song writing is a much more lucrative skill than having killer instrumental chops.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='1313348' date='Jul 22 2011, 10:20 PM']Unfortunately not. The "lesser" musicians usually get shafted by label deals. Often it's whoever wrote the main riff or the recognisable melody or the such, the bassist and drummer could write their parts entirely and not get credit for it.[/quote]
Depends what you agree with the rest of the band, I would always split the credit to all members in a band whereas a solo artist that you play for is more likely to give you a mention somewhere in the sleeve unless you and the artist agreed your input was worthy of a proper credit (and possible money making potential). It's down to us muso's to agree terms early on to avoid trouble later. I'm yet to make my fortune from credited or anonymous work though

[lettsguitars]

if i right the lyrics and melody, i wrote the song. if a bassist, guitarist and drummer join in with their own bits, i still wrote the song. if i write lyrics and someone else writes the tune, i wrote the lyrics and someone else wrote the music. adding a catchy bassline or guitar bit doesn't give you song writing credits. a song is the melody and lyrical content.

[JPAC]

All points noted. Your comments made me remember all of the radio and TV discussions about arguments and band breakups about who got credited for what. Before I just thought they must clever doing all that on the song. My memory is broken. Thanks.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1313379' date='Jul 22 2011, 11:06 PM']if i right the lyrics and melody, i wrote the song. if a bassist, guitarist and drummer join in with their own bits, i still wrote the song. if i write lyrics and someone else writes the tune, i wrote the lyrics and someone else wrote the music. adding a catchy bassline or guitar bit doesn't give you song writing credits. a song is the melody and lyrical content.[/quote]

I have no issue with this as I just wouldn't join a band with someone that felt that way so the problem would never come up. If i was in a band that came up with something like Stone roses fools gold or she bangs the drums, Queen another one bites the dust etc etc I would want a slice of the pie. At the same time I would play in a band where bass parts are written by the band leader and just do my bit live or in the studio without credit other than a thankyou in the blurb.

Just the lyrics don't make a song IMO and a computer could be made to workout every melody possible so would the computers programmes inventor have rights to every song after?

[mike257]

The way the laws around it work, if you write the lyrics to a song, and I write the music, we each own half of both.

It does all come down to the band politics, I've seen many bands credit it as 'songs by [i]x[/i], music by [i]band name[/i]'. A band my friend plays for credit the writing 50/50 to the lead guitarist and the singer and everyone else's input gets classed as 'arranging'.

[BigRedX]

In the end songwriting credits come down to what has been agreed between the songwriters or the band (and their publishers).

A list of names in brackets after the song title doesn't mean that all those names get equal credit, or even that all those names actually had a role in writing that particular song (think Lennon and McCartney). Conversely a band name listed as the songwriter may actually be a songwriting pseudonym for a single (or selected) member(s) of the band - I know of at least on instance where this holds true. So even when the writing credits look democratic, it doesn't automatically follow that the actual allocation of songwriting royalties behind them is.

Traditionally songwriting royalties were split equally between the lyrics and the music. This stems from the days of songwriting partnerships such as Rodgers & Hammerstein and more recently Andrew Lloyd Weber & Tim Rice. One wrote the words (and only the words - not the vocal melodies) and the other wrote all the music (although not necessarily the full orchestral arrangement). They wrote the songs and other people performed them.

This kind of arrangement starts to break down once the writers are also the performers i.e. pop groups from the 50s onwards, which is why songwriting splits have to be by agreement nowadays. Consider a typical 4-piece band: vocals, guitar, bass, drums who write together by jamming a very rough idea into a complete fully arranged song. Assume that the singer also writes the lyrics and that all the other musicians parts carry equal songwriting weight. Under the traditional way of dividing songwrtiting royalties, because the singer has also written the vocal melody not only do they get the full share of the royalties for the words they are also due a ¼ share of the music which gives them a total 5/8 share of the whole song. Their input might be worth that or not - that's for the band to decide.

This why in band situations the picture is rarely clear cut. Why it depends entirely on what has been agreed by the band members and why what it actually says on the record doesn't always directly correlate to who actually wrote the song and why all those listed aren't necessarily getting equal shares of the royalties.

In my current band all the songwriting credits are split equally between the 4 band members. This is despite the fact that the singer writes all the words and 80% of the music is written by me (the singer is also a drummer and I write most of the guitar parts as well as the bass so between us we also have a fairly complete arrangement worked out).

We do this split for 2 reasons. Firstly it means that there is no monetary advantage in picking anything other than our best songs for release, because we're all due for the same royalties what we choose. Secondly IMO even though when a song is presented to the band even though whoever came up with the main idea might think they have everything worked out. it's when we play as a band that it all comes together. The other musicians perspectives are the things that complete the song and can be the difference between a song simply being good and being great.

If your band plays original material and you have songs available for people to buy or listen to then IMO it's important that you get invoved in the songwriting process and get properly credited for it. I still get PRS royalties for songs I wrote and recorded over 30 years ago. It's not much but then we weren't exactly popular at the time, but despite this and the fact that the band are long gone the songs that I wrote all those years ago still provide me with a bit of beer money. And who knows there's still a possibility that a more famous band might decide that a bit of obscure DIY post-punk might be a cool thing to cover....

Edited July 23, 2011 by BigRedX

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mike257' post='1313504' date='Jul 23 2011, 07:46 AM']A band my friend plays for credit the writing 50/50 to the lead guitarist and the singer and everyone else's input gets classed as 'arranging'.[/quote]
As far as the PRS is concerned you get nothing for arranging unless the song is out of copyright.