Deflated bassist

[icastle]

I've been doing this for 31 years now and can categorically state that playing live and playing on a recording are two totally different things.

If you are playing live and hit a duff note then it'll be forgotten about as soon as you hit the next correct one, if you are recording then that duff note will be captured for all to notice.

My experience is that if I'm already pushing the boundaries when performing the song live, then by the time I've added the extra stress and sense of responsibility to the other performers by recording the song to that same level, then the chances are that I'm destined for a fall.

I just relax, keep it simple and just lock into the click (or drum) track.
If I screw up then I call a halt to the recording immediately, apologise and start again - there's nothing worse than subjecting everyone to an entire rendition of a song that has a note from hell sat in the middle of it.

Sounds obvious, but having a plan of what you are going to record helps as well - my most fruitless sessions have always been the one's where the question [i]'right, what shall we record then?'[/i] gets asked.
Knowing what you are going to be performing allows you the preparation time to become note perfect before you even set foot in the studio.

I'd much rather overhear 'wow - he's even better live' than 'he screwed that up so we're gonna have to do it again'.

[thepurpleblob]

I have some sympathy... I can play something correctly at every rehearsal for weeks and then fluff it at the gig. The trouble (with me) is that I a bit of a tightly wound person at the best of times and can sometimes get a bit too tense at gigs. In my case it's about being well rehearsed, giving myself plenty of time and double checking everything OCD style.

My point, if there is one, is to attempt to work out what troubles you and then to figure out the best way to work around it.

[lee4]

I have spent years learning to play less notes.
Ask the other band members what they want to hear the bass play(usually the singer could'nt care less and the drummer just wants you to lock in.Never ask the guitar player,he/she will feel threatened and sulk ).

[BigRedX]

[quote name='icastle' post='1315795' date='Jul 25 2011, 02:59 PM']If I screw up then I call a halt to the recording immediately, apologise and start again - there's nothing worse than subjecting everyone to an entire rendition of a song that has a note from hell sat in the middle of it.[/quote]
Depends how you are recording. If it's multitrack and you've got good separation of instruments, and the overall "vibe" of the track is good then play through to the end and go back and fix your mistakes.

It's just as bad to make all the other musicians play the bits that they've already done right over and over again because you screwed up.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1315296' date='Jul 25 2011, 12:24 AM']After recording session over the weekend, I realise how crap I am. Even the singer noted "you are one of the best bassists I've seen, but you are also the most inconsistent".... In terms of pulling it off and not that is.

I'm putting in the hours of practice and I've played a tonn of gigs but he is right. Sometimes I'm just sh*t, and sometimes I feel like I'm making it intentionally hard for myself. I wish I could turn up and play roots and fithes with a pick and a bit of distortion, but it's not interesting enough for me at all and I'll just give up playing.

I know I can get it right on the night sometimes but not often enough and it's making me rather depressed and since coming home from the studio I've not even bothered setting up my gear again.

Have I faced an inconvenient truth, and give up to start spanking the tiny sixers again? How can I recapture the magic and be content with my abilities. ?

I don't know what is wrong with me.[/quote]

This is how i felt about drumming in a band. I seemed to nail it some days and was crap on others. It's one of those things, i think really it just needs practice so you can be epic on some days and acceptable on the bad days. It's something i could never do though, that's probably not encouraging lol. Doesn't mean you should hang up your bass though, I just tend to leave things half finished in general.

[risingson]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1315817' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:20 PM']Depends how you are recording. If it's multitrack and you've got good separation of instruments, and the overall "vibe" of the track is good then play through to the end and go back and fix your mistakes.

It's just as bad to make all the other musicians play the bits that they've already done right over and over again because you screwed up.[/quote]

I agree on both points and for different reasons. As much as I enjoy overdubbing after the drums and a basic keys track has been put down, it's always nice to capture a truly 'live' performance of an entire band in the studio as well. It becomes less of a draw to be overdubbing endless takes of instruments and allows you to to stand back and actually be subjective about what you've just recorded, mistakes withstanding.

Edited July 25, 2011 by risingson

[skej21]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1315554' date='Jul 25 2011, 11:22 AM']every so often I'll make a point to make sure my pinky is being used as much as possible as I often find it's dead weight.[/quote]

Having read through the thread, this is the part that sticks out.

You appear to be putting in the practice time, but if your pinky is "dead weight" and you need to go out of your way to focus your practice to include it, I would suggest your technique is not good enough to allow you to get what's in your head out on to your fingers.

If I was you, I'd practice technical/fingering exercises and get a teacher to help you rectify your technique. If your technique was right, you'd be using your pinky all the time when playing and once you get this sorted out, you'll be flying!

Like you said, some days you'll nail it and some days it feels like you're making it difficult for yourself.

The chances are that if your technique isn't great and you're not using your pinky, you actually are making it more difficult for yourself.

Edited July 25, 2011 by skej21

[Musicman20]

Are we talking about using all four fingers to fret here?

[bassicinstinct]

If I've learned anything in my 40 years + of gigging/recording, it is this:

Music is [b]NOT[/b] (or at least it [b]shouldn't be[/b]) a "competitive sport".

Your playing should serve [b]the song[/b] and not be simply designed to "impress".

This should apply to every instrument, including the human voice.

All IMHO, naturally, and just my 2 pence worth.

[icastle]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1315817' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:20 PM']Depends how you are recording. If it's multitrack and you've got good separation of instruments, and the overall "vibe" of the track is good then play through to the end and go back and fix your mistakes.

It's just as bad to make all the other musicians play the bits that they've already done right over and over again because you screwed up.[/quote]

It's always multitracked for me.
Yes, it's perfectly ok to go back and correct an offending note, but I do much prefer to do it all in one take so I can get consistancy over the entire piece - it's more psychological than 'actual', but a corrected note sounds wrong because I know what it used to be.

It's not as bad as I make it out to be though, I usually have a run through of the track, then a first take which is usually ok and a second take if I'm not happy with it - I've never needed more than three takes because I know what I'm doing before I start...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1315351' date='Jul 25 2011, 07:16 AM']Spot on, sometimes showing technical ability can really detract from the song. Lock in with the drummer, and see where that takes you.[/quote]


True. There is a place for cool licks and "show-offness" but we must not forget to get the basics right, and because it's basic that doesn't mean it's boring. It's powerful.

I was just thinking teh other day about my earliest memory of bass.

It was on TV. Some naff show, a crap pop band playing a ballad. I remember that "dummmmmmm" that was so warm and round and sustained... and I figured it was produced by that guitar on the right. It was a sunburst, probably a Precision but I can't recall for certain, it's been too long ago.
I remembered that for years. And I didn't want to play bass at first, but guitar... yet, I wanted to have a go at producing that "dummmmmm" I heard as a child. I thought I could really enjoy myself in a room with a bass, and amp, and just playing an open string E...

Think of "Another one bites the dust". Very simple bassline. But it's got a lot of power!
That's what attracted me, eventually, to bass.
And sure, I like to do a few flea-esque riffs and fills and things... but what I *love* about bass is that feeling when drums and bass work together, and it's just tremendously powerful.
For me, at least.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='skej21' post='1315833' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:33 PM']Having read through the thread, this is the part that sticks out.

You appear to be putting in the practice time, but if your pinky is "dead weight" and you need to go out of your way to focus your practice to include it, I would suggest your technique is not good enough to allow you to get what's in your head out on to your fingers.

If I was you, I'd practice technical/fingering exercises and get a teacher to help you rectify your technique. If your technique was right, you'd be using your pinky all the time when playing and once you get this sorted out, you'll be flying!

Like you said, some days you'll nail it and some days it feels like you're making it difficult for yourself.

The chances are that if your technique isn't great and you're not using your pinky, you actually are making it more difficult for yourself.[/quote]

But them, if you don't need it, you're just making fuss for yourself? If you find yourself having to consciously go out of your way to use your pinky, then it sounds like you don't really need it... Just my thoughts.

I've got about two tracks where I use my pinky for reach; thus lots of fingering exercise would be wasted on me, if I was focused on improving what I'm playing with the band. No?

Could just be me, Marion, but I feel our princess is in another castle.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Gust0o

[algmusic]

[quote name='icastle' post='1315795' date='Jul 25 2011, 02:59 PM']I've been doing this for 31 years now and can categorically state that playing live and playing on a recording are two totally different things.

If you are playing live and hit a duff note then it'll be forgotten about as soon as you hit the next correct one, if you are recording then that duff note will be captured for all to notice.

My experience is that if I'm already pushing the boundaries when performing the song live, then by the time I've added the extra stress and sense of responsibility to the other performers by recording the song to that same level, then the chances are that I'm destined for a fall.

I just relax, keep it simple and just lock into the click (or drum) track.
If I screw up then I call a halt to the recording immediately, apologise and start again - there's nothing worse than subjecting everyone to an entire rendition of a song that has a note from hell sat in the middle of it.

Sounds obvious, but having a plan of what you are going to record helps as well - my most fruitless sessions have always been the one's where the question [i]'right, what shall we record then?'[/i] gets asked.
Knowing what you are going to be performing allows you the preparation time to become note perfect before you even set foot in the studio.

I'd much rather overhear 'wow - he's even better live' than 'he screwed that up so we're gonna have to do it again'.[/quote]


Alot of the points hear are great, but I think icastle has hit the nail on the head.

Recording and Live are two completely different animals.. I actually have a completely different mindset when recording over live work. It's like cycling on road on a racer vs in the woods on your mountain bike..

Recording in the studio is extremely difficult mate and personally, I don't think the remarks of your singers is helpful. I also notice the singer doesn't seem to play an instrument, so how would he know. Each band member has their own things to deal with in the studio and I think bass is the most understated role by a mile. I only notice a good bassist when there are not there.. :-) Also playing drums and bass in the studio are one of the hard parts as the whole song sits on it so you have to balance energy with accuracy, without sounding dull.. I know alot of guys that play accurately but with no feel in the studio which is just as bad in my eyes (or ears)..

[b]relax, and practice recording yourself at home to either you favourite bands or this band.[/b] Try not to over complicate the part and it'll be fun

Also how did you record it? all together? created guide tracks? or just played to the drums without vocals or guitar etc (which is very tough)

[halfmanhalfdrum]

Get yourself a Double Bass and practice your basslines on that for a few weeks. When you go back to your electric you'll find it a breeze and it should reinforce why you chose to be a bassist in the first place. If that's not for you then learn some songs from completely different genre of music. I find that playing Beatles stuff is good for the ego. It should help you look at the stuff you play with different perspective.

[lee4]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='1315876' date='Jul 25 2011, 04:04 PM']If I've learned anything in my 40 years + of gigging/recording, it is this:

Music is [b]NOT[/b] (or at least it [b]shouldn't be[/b]) a "competitive sport".

Your playing should serve [b]the song[/b] and not be simply designed to "impress".

This should apply to every instrument, including the human voice.

All IMHO, naturally, and just my 2 pence worth. [/quote]
+10,0000

[bassicinstinct]

Also, I can really recommend a book called "The Inner Game of Music" by Barry Green and W. Timothy Gallwey. Published by Pan. I think I got my copy through Amazon for £7.99.

A[b] very[/b] illuminating read indeed, which touches on a number of the issues already raised in this thread.

Edit:

Blimey!! currently on offer for less than a fiver!!

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Game-Music-Timothy-Gallwey/dp/0330300172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311616193&sr=8-1"]The Inner Game of Music [/url]

A snip I tell you!!

Edited July 25, 2011 by bassicinstinct

[ROConnell]

Don't let yourself down over that. You are your own style and what you play is what suits you.
As they all say, learn from your mistakes.

And as Hendrix said: "Don't play the music with your brain, let your feelings guide your fingers."

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='skej21' post='1315833' date='Jul 25 2011, 03:33 PM']Having read through the thread, this is the part that sticks out.

You appear to be putting in the practice time, but if your pinky is "dead weight" and you need to go out of your way to focus your practice to include it, I would suggest your technique is not good enough to allow you to get what's in your head out on to your fingers.

If I was you, I'd practice technical/fingering exercises and get a teacher to help you rectify your technique. If your technique was right, you'd be using your pinky all the time when playing and once you get this sorted out, you'll be flying!

Like you said, some days you'll nail it and some days it feels like you're making it difficult for yourself.

The chances are that if your technique isn't great and you're not using your pinky, you actually are making it more difficult for yourself.[/quote]

To me it stands out partly because too often people focus on left hand technique when the right hand is actually the thing that's the limiting factor. Trying to play lines slowly at first in isolation, looking at how your hands move and pinpoint the problem areas, is invaluable. You should also try and think about how you play when practicing compared to with the band - do you try and play harder to match the volume? I know I do, and if I'm hammering the strings it means I can't play as cleanly.

All this advice on not overplaying is very important, but it is a separate issue to a problem with technique. Sorting out the latter doesn't do any harm to the former, on the contrary it really helps everything.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1315601' date='Jul 25 2011, 12:11 PM']Cool stuff, which one is it. I remember him using Stingray copies live.

Just for you,

[/quote]

It's the sterling used in this video!!! There are a few pictures of him using it live aswell.

A lot of wise words. I think on the offending day a lot of things affected how badly I believe it went.
I wasn't overly happy with the setup. I'm just a newb so I didn't feel right saying anything. I felt the singer rushed us to get as much done as possible. I never got in the zone, as such. As I can at a gig and rehearsing.
The guitarist turned up with his usual lackadaisical attitude towards his own sound, usually its very dirty, witha few tracks going from clean to very distorted, and this sounds great for the sound we all want to achieve but for what ever reason he insisted in recording it with lightest overdrive he could get and it was just too clean and too much treble boost, it was just off putting. Again I guess I should have said something.

About the mind set thing. I think we all went with the "live" mind set rather than "recording". This was the first time we've done a full day of recording and the young ones were getting frustrated with the very long setup time and the constant tuning of the drum kit....

As first experiences go it wasnt great.

Thanks again to everyones kind words does mean a lot.

[tinyd]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1315762' date='Jul 25 2011, 02:17 PM']Are you playing complicated stuff because it's what the song needs or is because otherwise you don't find the music interesting enough? If it's the later then maybe you should consider that this isn't the right band for you and that's the real problem.[/quote]

This is a good point - and maybe you're not just playing in the wrong band, but you're also playing the wrong type of music. This is purely subjective and I'm not trying to say that one type of music is better than another, but from my point of view I started enjoying bass a lot more when I expanded my playing to other genres. You can bring this knowledge back into your current musical setting, or you may want to find other musicians to play with. An example of what I'm talking about is rhythm - learn to start your lines on different beats in the bar than '1', hold notes across bars etc (maybe you're already doing this, in which case, apologies!) and, as others have already said, generally adopt a 'less is more' approach.

[grunge666]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1315296' date='Jul 25 2011, 12:24 AM']Even the singer noted "you are one of the best bassists I've seen, but you are also the most inconsistent".... In terms of pulling it off and not that is.[/quote]

I'd have punched the singer!

[danhkr]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1315296' date='Jul 25 2011, 12:24 AM']I wish I could turn up and play roots and fithes with a pick and a bit of distortion, but it's not interesting enough for me at all and I'll just give up playing.[/quote]

Whilst constantly pushing yourself is never a bad thing, you do sound a little bit like a frustrated guitarist being made to play bass. Suggesting you may even 'go back to guitar' further suggests this.

[i]Just try keeping it simple, lock in with the drummer, don't see bass playing as some ego trip to impress people[/i]; all these things and more have been said in this thread and this is a massive +1 on that from me.

It's great when someone comes up to you and compliments your playing, but your main priority should be doing what's best for the band and the song. I really hope you take on board what a lot of people are saying here and start having fun again.