How well does a Jazz cut through?

[Mylkinut]

Since the clientele at my band's regular gig venues seems to be going downhill pretty rapidly, I'm in need of a new 'giggable' bass. I love the sound of Jazz basses played alone but I've never had the chance to try one in a band situation. How well do they cut through? My band is very Arcade-Firish in style, but my lines are pretty complex so I'd rather they didn't get lost in the mix. Up till now I've been playing my '77 Precision (which does the job just fine) but there are so many cheap Jazzes out there at the moment I kinda want to take advantage...

[Lozz196]

I`m kindof the same, I think Jazzes sound great when played on their own, but I`ve only ever heard a few people use one where it both cut through in the mix, but retained a deep solid presence (I am talking local bassists, not famous ones, by the way).

When eq`d "properly" the Jazz really sounds great, and has a much more articulate sound in the mix than the Precision. With a bit of tinkering on your eqs, especially as you mention that your lines are quite complex, I think a Jazz would be ideal. Look at Chris Wolstenhume from Muse - he used(uses?) an active Jazz, and his basslines have great presence.

For me, a Precision does the holding down the solid bottom end job the best of all, but, for more fancy work, I think a Jazz is better suited, just because of the tone of the instrument.

[skidder652003]

how about a p/j? Loads of those about at the mo!

[chrismuzz]

The Jazz bass sound works really well for me. Nice and aggressive in the upper mids and treble!

[dmccombe7]

I keep going back to my Jazz.
5 piece rock band and depending on how you set your EQ you should be able to cut in the mix.
As someone pointed out, it might be worthwhile looking at an active jazz which would give you more flex in sound.
A P/J might also be a good option - best of both worlds.

That said i certainly don't have any great issues using jazz bass.

Good luck
Dave

[dan670844]

[quote name='Mylkinut' post='1316414' date='Jul 25 2011, 10:21 PM']Since the clientele at my band's regular gig venues seems to be going downhill pretty rapidly, I'm in need of a new 'giggable' bass. I love the sound of Jazz basses played alone but I've never had the chance to try one in a band situation. How well do they cut through? My band is very Arcade-Firish in style, but my lines are pretty complex so I'd rather they didn't get lost in the mix. Up till now I've been playing my '77 Precision (which does the job just fine) but there are so many cheap Jazzes out there at the moment I kinda want to take advantage...[/quote]


As been said by others, tweaky of the eq will help cut through, if you have a lot of guitar in your mix, you need to bump up your mids (only slightly), sad face eq, this is because a jazz has scouped mids and you need to bring them back up level, or you can roll off one of the pickups slightly, usually the neck for me then quarter turn roll off of the tone, this is the most used setting on a jazz I would think.

Having said all this it depends on the jazz really, the older ones have very scouped mids and very powerful low end and and a sparkly top, these produce a wonderful tone but with a lot of guitar you need to sort the eq to cut. Unless your amp is mustard This is true of the Japanese reissues they sound and feel like a fullerton jazz.

70's era ones are much better at cutting through, true of reissues as well as they moved the bridge pickup closer to the bridge which gives the bass a more agressive sound and more zing with a bit more mid. Bassically the pickup and tone roll without using the controls. Don't believe the horse doo about they moved the pickup for aesthetic reasons. 70's era jazzes are great funk and rock machines and they are well made and less temperamental and easier to live with than the early ones again don't believe the BS. You can still pick them up for reasonable money.

If you want a modern one try to find one with S1 switch, basically a series switch or you can do it yourself for a little time and money (about £25), it brings the pickups in series, basically a P sound with much more clarity punch and definition.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mylkinut' post='1316414' date='Jul 25 2011, 10:21 PM']Since the clientele at my band's regular gig venues seems to be going downhill pretty rapidly, I'm in need of a new 'giggable' bass. I love the sound of Jazz basses played alone but I've never had the chance to try one in a band situation. How well do they cut through? My band is very Arcade-Firish in style, but my lines are pretty complex so I'd rather they didn't get lost in the mix. Up till now I've been playing my '77 Precision (which does the job just fine) but there are so many cheap Jazzes out there at the moment I kinda want to take advantage...[/quote]


I find they cut through fine... on the bridge pickup.
Both pickups on, tends to disappear if the band is noisy (read: guitars with lots of bottom end who just won't turn down).
Neck pickup on works a bit like a Pbass, although not as meaty but in the general ballpark.

When I use a Jazz, I tend to have both pickups on, and then roll off the neck volume until I get the amount of presence I need. It often means pretty much just bridge alone... but then I'm generally a bridge pickup type of guy. It gives you a tone that cuts through and it's fat enough (I like to roll off some treble too, usually).

[Jerry_B]

I think you'll only find out by experimentation. There was a recent thread about such things. You can get a nice variety of tones out of a jazz, and EQing will also help alot. I also think that pickups come into it quite alot too, but that may just be my own take on things. Normally I think Jazzes are a bit too subtle compared to a Precsion, but that doesn't mean you can't tweak them in one way or another to give them just as much presence. You just won't get exactly the same sort of tonal quality as a Precision.

The P/J route may also be one to try - it's one I find myself favouring nowadays, as it give you an element of the best of both worlds.

[Heartbreaker]

I too need clarity & depth as I play in a very loud classic rock band & some of the bass lines are complex & need to cut through the 2 Marshall guitar rigs so the best I've found is an active Jazz. A standard passive Jazz just does not cut through enough neither too will a P. We only mike up the vocals so rely on the back line to give the volume, clarity & tone. I've used many basses for the job from Rick's, Laklands, Warwicks, Musicmans etc but there comes a point where you cant pick out the detail at volume & the only one that clearly does is my 3eq American Jazz Deluxe Custom Shop. This is an early 96 American Deluxe CS Jazz with the Mk1 John Shur active EQ but have changed the 4 pole pickups to the later Noiseless Vintage pickups. Later ones have different 18v eq's, quite diferent but still OK. Mine gives loads of scope for tonal variatin, depth, punch & clarity yet sounding balanced in the mix & can push as far in front as I like if required. I run it through an Ampeg SVT4pro head & various Markbass cabs, usually 2 Mk1 4x10 hlf's. You'll also need to match your rig too for the right tone & clarity as this is equally as importand a choice as it the bass you use. I loved my 73 Jazz, great for less volume playing but it just didn't cut through at volume so try as many as you can before you jump. Rob.

[dave_bass5]

I keep going between Jazz and P. While i prefer the Jazz bass i find my D and G string get a bit lost in a band mix, especially up to the 5th fret.
Playing a open D and a fretted D on the A sting gives me quite a different volume. Ive always found this to a certain extent and only on Jazz basses.
EQ helps though and its not something that would put me off for life, its just something im aware of and is probably the one reason i stick to my P most of the time.

Ive had a PJ but the problem there is you dont get a true Jazz tone as you only have the one single coil bridge pup, and i like the slightly mid scooped tone of both pups on.

[krazy_olie]

My Aerodyne p/j sounds like a jazz with a bit of oomph when on full (non original pickups though). It doesn't have quite the exact jazz scooped sound but that is really the inherent problem with the jazz cutting through, you can't have it both ways . A slight sacrifice in clarity for extra punch.

Plus you can turn off the J and you have a straight P if it's not working !

Edited July 26, 2011 by krazy_olie

[TRBboy]

I think that jazzes can cut through better, and you get more definition and clarity due to the bridge pickup. I pretty much always played both pickups full and found that that gave me plenty of punch and cut-through. If you really want a kick in the nuts, shove some Dimarzio Ultra Jazz in it; REALLY punchy and powerful but still defined. Because they're hum-cancelling (side by side coils), you can get the neck pup fairly close to a P sound.

[dave_bass5]

I must admit ive never heard a jazz bass player that wasn't cutting through the mix. I do find i have to Eq my Jazz differently to my P to get the best of of them.

[JTUK]

Don't understand this thread at all.

Jazzes have a wider range than P-basses and you should have no problem getting on top of things.
A P-bass is buried by comparison... and I don't mean that disparingingly...as that is what people want and love from them.

I have active Jazzes..but like, from time to time, to run them passive as they work well there, IMO. I go active just for a tad more control at my fingertips as opposed to running them flat out and sounding completely different.

Assuming the basses sing well enough, I can't see why you should have problems in a mix.

[lanark]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1316783' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:05 AM']I must admit ive never heard a jazz bass player that wasn't cutting through the mix. I do find i have to Eq my Jazz differently to my P to get the best of of them.[/quote]

That's because if he wasn't cutting through the mix, he'd have been seen but not heard.

I wonder if this is flavour of the month topic at the moment though, everyone seems to be talking about Jazzes having issues cutting through in the last year but not so much earlier. I wonder if Jazzes have suddenly become more popular and it's thus become more of an issue.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='lanark' post='1316793' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:16 AM']he'd have been seen but not heard.[/quote]

Isnt that how its supposed to be

Seriously though, i would prefer to sit in the mix rather than cut through it, but then im really just holding down the song and giving space to the guitarist to do what ever it is he does.

Edited July 26, 2011 by dave_bass5

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1316789' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:11 AM'][b]Jazzes have a wider range than P-basses and you should have no problem getting on top of things.
[/b]


I have active Jazzes..but like, from time to time, to run them passive as they work well there, IMO. I go active just for a tad more control at my fingertips as opposed to running them flat out and sounding completely different.

Assuming the basses sing well enough, I can't see why you should have problems in a mix.[/quote]

^^^^^ This

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1316789' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:11 AM']Don't understand this thread at all.

Jazzes have a wider range than P-basses and you should have no problem getting on top of things.[/quote]

True but they can also have a slightly scooped tone and this wont help getting through a loud busy mix, especially if your cabs are scooped as well.

This is why im not keen on PJ's, at least not stock ones, as i love the deep tone the neck pup gets, you just dont normally get that smooth tone with a P pup IME.

[JTUK]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1316812' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:26 AM']True but they can also have a slightly scooped tone and this wont help getting through a loud busy mix, especially if your cabs are scooped as well.

This is why im not keen on PJ's, at least not stock ones, as i love the deep tone the neck pup gets, you just dont normally get that smooth tone with a P pup IME.[/quote]


I run them with GS112's sometimes....albeit with a lively sound..as that is what I like. How much more scooped is that..?? ha ha !!!
I have to contend with LOUD drums, gtr and keys which can be a powerful sound, IMO...I would be horrified if I was to loose D and G strings.

I have semi para's on both amps...but run them flat on the dials...only ever use timbre and enhance.

As with all these type of things...you can have some kit that will never in a zillion years help you here...but that consideration should be in your choice of the sound chain.

Some basses/kit will be better/more biased than others and some will just not be upto it.

But a jazz is a good start to getting through a mix, IMO.

[Bankai]

A Jazz can definitely be made to cut through, more so than a Precision I'd say.

[dave_bass5]

I think part of my issue is i play with a pick so tend to loose that finger fullness, that probably accounts for thinner tone from some of the strings in my case.

At them moment my only Jazz is the CV Jazz and it has a very warm tone and really doesn't cut through like my old HW-one and MIA so maybe its time i replaced it as i would love to go back to a Jazz bass.

Edited July 26, 2011 by dave_bass5

[BassBus]

This guy cuts through quite well with his jazz.

[gsgbass]

Personal opinons and all, I've played Jazzes the majority of 42 years, Precisions, and Gibson EB's the balance of the time. I kind think you get a good well rounded or punch with the Jazz. The amp you run it through is going to be the final judge of what has the dominance of sound you put out. As much as I totally love 12's, I found for me anyway, my 10's and a healthy setting on the bass side settings pounds, and punches. I don't do slap or funk, so I really can't honestly yak about that. Jazzes work, good all around.

[Lozz196]

If looking for a Jazz, this has def got to be on the list:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=147740"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=147740[/url]

MIJ Jazz, for £350.

[gsgbass]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1317014' date='Jul 26 2011, 08:35 AM']If looking for a Jazz, this has def got to be on the list:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=147740"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=147740[/url]

MIJ Jazz, for £350.[/quote]

Very nice L P Blue. Great condition as well.