clauster Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Really hope someone has got the technical savvy to help me out with this one - Our band has grown and our mixer gets more and more cranky, to the point where we no don't have enough aux sends to supply monitor mixes for all. Question is can we just use splitter cables from the desk end of the snake to drive our FOH mixer AND a second monitor mixer? What would happen when phantom power is sent from the FOH mixer? Would it fry inputs on the second mixer? Are there other issues? Please help because we don't want to spend £200 on splitters only to find it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 What kind of desk ? How many signals do you need to splt ? Are the signals mic signals on XLRs or line signals on jacks ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 As far as I'm aware, if you buy a properly made mic splitter box, you should be able to send phantom power down there with no probs. It's the kind of thing that gets used all the time with tour rigs to split to a monitor desk or a multitrack recorder, so it should be cool. Don't think they come cheap though :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 [quote name='clauster' post='151969' date='Mar 5 2008, 07:32 PM']Really hope someone has got the technical savvy to help me out with this one - Our band has grown and our mixer gets more and more cranky, to the point where we no don't have enough aux sends to supply monitor mixes for all. Question is can we just use splitter cables from the desk end of the snake to drive our FOH mixer AND a second monitor mixer? What would happen when phantom power is sent from the FOH mixer? Would it fry inputs on the second mixer? Are there other issues? Please help because we don't want to spend £200 on splitters only to find it doesn't work.[/quote] [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_sp3_splitter.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_sp3_splitter.htm[/url] If the phantom power is sent from the FOH mixer, connect the FOH mixer to the 'link out' and the mic to the 'link in'. Connect the monitor mix to the 'isolated balanced output'. The phantom power won't appear on this output, it being transformer isolated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The reason I asked about the type of mixing desk etc. is that if the desk has "insert" points on the channels and these are not currently being used, it may be possible to extract the signal from the channel at the insert point and take this to another desk, in which case you wouldn't need any extra hardware, just appropriate cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 The desk is a Behringer (yes, I know!!!!). We,ve tried using the inserts before to patch to an RME Fireface 800 for recording and it plays havoc with the levels. Could be worth trying again tho. Don't really want to spend the cash on a "proper" splitter box, as for the same money we could be a used analogue desk with plenty of sends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 [quote name='clauster' post='152214' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:08 AM']The desk is a Behringer (yes, I know!!!!). We,ve tried using the inserts before to patch to an RME Fireface 800 for recording and it plays havoc with the levels. Could be worth trying again tho. Don't really want to spend the cash on a "proper" splitter box, as for the same money we could be a used analogue desk with plenty of sends.[/quote] £32.78? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The Inserts are pre-EQ, pre-fader and pre-AUX send. The output level will be controlled by the Trim pot on the channel. To use them as outputs you need to use stereo (Tip Ring Sleeve) jack plugs with the Tip and Ring bridged together at the mixer end, going to a mono jack at the monitor mixer end. Some of the Behringers also have "Direct Outputs" on the back for some of the channels. These are "post EQ", post mute and post-fader" so they're taken from the end of the signal chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Cheers BOD2 - like a complete numpty I was just using tip-sleeve plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Problem solved (I think) I've found a monitor mixer that does snake splitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 [quote name='clauster' post='153142' date='Mar 7 2008, 03:28 PM']Problem solved (I think) I've found a monitor mixer that does snake splitting.[/quote] Good stuff. Can you post the make/model of the monitor mixer here so that if the same question comes up again we can refer back to this thread, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sure thing.... It's the Peavey RQ 1606M. The one I've found is in the states (couldn't find one i the UK at all) so it'll need a step-down transformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Don't know if this is too late, but here's my go: I used to run a venue on a tight budget, and our FOH/monitor desks both received the signal via a simple parallel Y-split on each multicore channel. I know this, because I soldered a lot of them myself! Although it may not be "electronic theory" correct, it works and is actually common practice in a lot of PA gear. In my experience it's only those with big budgets (and a deisre to hear no noise in a venue that has a background noise floor of at least 80dBSPL!) that go for proper transformered splits. I think you could have done this without forking out for an annoyingly complicated 110V mixer, although Peavey stuff is usually compatible or switchable to 230V? Th only other thing to note is that we made sure that one engineer knew never to switch the phantom "on" on his desk. In our case it was FOH who ran phantom as we often ran the venue without the monitor desk for simple stuff. The only ever time we ran into problems was when bands insisted on using weird homemade electronic gear, such as a guitarist who once blew a bank of desk channels with his own effects unit thing he was proud of. We also had a keyboard player who insisted on using his own Canford audio XLR passive splits (on top of our own) to give him a kick drum feed to his own monitor setup. I felt it just drained the life out of the signal to our desks, so I banned him from using them. That went down like lead balloon, I can tell you! The joys of a sound man! Who'd be one???? As I always used to say, "People only notice the sound man if they're cr*p"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Cheers huge hands, and advice not too late - the band member who was supposed to be doing the ebay bit didn't even switch his computer on until the day after the auction ended Just keeping my eyes peeled for an 8 aux send desk that's not too expensive now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) [quote name='clauster' post='158975' date='Mar 17 2008, 03:02 PM']Just keeping my eyes peeled for an 8 aux send desk that's not too expensive now.[/quote] IMHO, (get me with the acronyms!) there is nothing as versatile or reliable as Allen and Heath for the money (no I don't work for them!). I used to find the GL range reasonably priced, and easy to maintain (usually faders that died that could be swapped out in a few hours as long as it was all unplugged). Their new posh stuff that I think is mass produced in China is not so reliable, but I reckon if something pre-2002 pops up on e-bay it will be reasonable money and quality gear. If you're running that many monitor mixes, then I would have thought having as much input gain control before distortion and control of EQ per channel is vital. These are the first things that suffer on the cheaper desks. In another IMHO, Behringer stuff is dead cheap, snorted on by the pro snobs (I'm proud to be one!) and quite unreliable. I used to use their outboard gear such as quad gates and compressors, because forking out £90 ish every time one died wasn't too much of a problem. When they did work, you got a lot for £90, but expect them to be throwaway. With this in mind, this is why I wouldn't rely on one as the hub of my PA if I was a regular gigging band with a tight budget. My final piece of advice: If your band is as above and you do buy a mixer that has a separate, external power supply, it would be worth finding and spending a bit more on a spare unit as a backup. In dodgy venues with even dodgier electrics, it can be one of the first things to die, or get upset. Worth shutting the gig down for 20 mins to swap, rather than cancelling completely. Some mixers had management units that allowed you to run two at the same time in case this happened, but that's probably overkill. I would like to add that I've now been out of the live event game for about 4 years, so things may have moved on. Apologies if I've upset any manufacturers with my opinions, which are indeed my own! Edited March 17, 2008 by Huge Hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Cheers for all the above advice. We did a tech rehearsal on Sunday and patched 8 channels through to the fireface (with trs jacks) - worked a treat for recording and monitoring. Happy, happy, joy, joy (although we'd still like the excuse and cash to be able to go and get an A&H desk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.