Prime_BASS Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Since my dramatic and telling experience at the bands recording session the other day I've been playing a lot with my technique. I've alway been told and read that to set the input gain right you should pluck the E-string as hard as possible until the clip light barely comes on. Now this has been fine with my usual aggressive and inconsistent technique before, but now that I want to try this softer approach I wonder if I should be turning the gain up to compensate? I've already tried it and it does sound better overall with turning the gain up, the mids are still very present, but I wonder if setting the input gain to your playing rather than how much input the head can take is a better way of setting the amp up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Sounds like a good idea to me, as long as you don't cause it to clip a lot. Maybe use a limiter to save your amp just in case? I also have an aggressive technique, but compress the hell out of my bass so I'm able to set my Gain at 1 o'clock without any worry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't think its a case of plucking that e-string as hard as possible but of plucking it as hard as you are going to when you are perfroming. If you are plucking it as hard as possible when you are playing, you will lose all the finesse in your technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1318429' date='Jul 27 2011, 04:54 PM']I don't think its a case of plucking that e-string as hard as possible but of plucking it as hard as you are going to when you are perfroming. If you are plucking it as hard as possible when you are playing, you will lose all the finesse in your technique.[/quote] Ah!! Exactly what I was thinking. The later was working since I was playing pretty damn hard but it's more than likly a sure fire way to develop some hand issues, hopefully the blisters will stop soon aswell. My only worry about the one song the band does once in a blue moon involves a slapping section for a verse, would I have to develop a better slap technique to fit in with the gain setting? It's not a major issue but I'm not one to fiddle, I lick to set my amp and go with no worries. So it's fair to say I'm going the right way around this now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bilbo has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The gain is the to get the amp operating within its optimimum conditions. The factors that act as boundaries on the gain setting are the signal to noise ratio at the low end and distortion of the signal due to clipping at the upper extreme. There is no point setting the input gain lower than you need to just because you are capable of hitting the string harder than you ever would, for one thing you are lowering your signal to noise ration, and for another you are lowering the maximum output of tha amp, since the gain is lower than it need be. So try the following (best done in a full mix situation - ie in reheasal with everyone playing):- Set the eq flat and the main volume minimum. Play at a level you would consider a loud accent in your technique, not as hard as you possibly could, rather as hard as you will ever play in the real situation, and set the input gain based upon that. Set the output volume to justy right in the mix. It can be a godd idea to just try nudghing the gain down and the output volume up to see if it is beneficial to the tone, usually you cant hear any difference, but some preamp circuits sound best at not quite the optimial s/n ratio setting. Eq the sound, aim to cut the stuff you dont like rather than boost what you do. The most important point here is to [i]use your ears and [b]not[/b] your eyes[/i]. Make the bass fit into the mix, try and be aware of mud (too much low mids) vs warmth (enough low mids) vs thinness (too little low mids), enough bottom withput it being boomy, some presence in the upper mids without harshness, and the right amount of 'zing'. In a mix situation less eq is usually (not always) more if you have a decent instrument and amp IME. If you get the band to stop playing and listen to your bass on its own dont be surprised if it sounds very different from what you would normally expect. That is fine.... Double check the input gain. You are now set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1318463' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:30 PM']Ah!! Exactly what I was thinking. The later was working since I was playing pretty damn hard but it's more than likly a sure fire way to develop some hand issues, hopefully the blisters will stop soon aswell. My only worry about the one song the band does once in a blue moon involves a slapping section for a verse, would I have to develop a better slap technique to fit in with the gain setting? It's not a major issue but I'm not one to fiddle, I lick to set my amp and go with no worries. So it's fair to say I'm going the right way around this now?[/quote] Slapping doesnt need to be louder than even moderately quiet fingerstyle, however much you see Flea bashing the cr*p out of his bass, it isnt necessary. However a decent well set up compressor/limiter can help you control the difference in level, I would suggest you work on the technique first and foremost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1318463' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:30 PM']hopefully the blisters will stop soon aswell.[/quote] They will. I never even break the skin any more. My finger tips are soft and smooth, but very robust! [quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1318463' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:30 PM']would I have to develop a better slap technique to fit in with the gain setting?[/quote] Your technique will develop naturally the more you do it. Most slap players, in fact most players who use multiple techniques use compression because slap is usually louder, and tapping is usually quieter, so it evens everything out a bit. I used to manage going from fingerstyle to tapping alright, but I had to tap pretty hard and it ended up being rather sloppy. Practice can iron out pretty much any issue one will come across, but I chose the easy way out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 +1 to everything 5Imon said. [quote name='51m0n' post='1318468' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:33 PM']If you get the band to stop playing and listen to your bass on its own dont be surprised if it sounds very different from what you would normally expect. That is fine....[/quote] Especially this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1318429' date='Jul 27 2011, 04:54 PM']I don't think its a case of plucking that e-string as hard as possible but of plucking it as hard as you are going to when you are perfroming. If you are plucking it as hard as possible when you are playing, you will lose all the finesse in your technique.[/quote] yup, definitely this! - I play with what could be considered a light touch - even my slap technique is controlled so that I don't beat my bass in to submission. Therefore I would say that I could get away with a higher gain setting than someone who was indeed 'playing the e string as hard as possible'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1318468' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:33 PM']There is no point setting the input gain lower than you need to just because you are capable of hitting the string harder than you ever would, for one thing you are lowering your signal to noise ration, and for another you are lowering the maximum output of tha amp, since the gain is lower than it need be.[/quote] When I was young and even more impressionable , a music shop assistant advised I should have the gain on my Trace head at about half. What he didn't tell me was he used a high output active bass and played much harder then me. I spent the next year or two wondering why I sounded so weedy and thin. Imagine my surprise one day when I decided to try turning the gain up to near max! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't understand why people think that gain needs to be set just below clipping point on a bass amp, especially with valve amps you use input gain to control the drive and grit. In a studio (on studio preamps, not counting instrument amps) you set the gain as high as possible to reduce the noise floor but live, so long as your amp isn't fuzzing loudly it's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 How to set gain on a mixing desk: "Dude play the loudest part of the song" (set gain to as loud as you can without clipping) "Sweet lets roll" Same applies to bass, just play the loudest part of the song (assuming you use dynamics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1318491' date='Jul 27 2011, 05:55 PM']I don't understand why people think that gain needs to be set just below clipping point on a bass amp, especially with valve amps you use input gain to control the drive and grit. In a studio (on studio preamps, not counting instrument amps) you set the gain as high as possible to reduce the noise floor but live, so long as your amp isn't fuzzing loudly it's fine.[/quote] You have a point, but if you provide too little gain then you are hamstringing the poweramp section, it can only amplify what you give it. If you are talking valve amps then by the time you are soft clipping (overdrive) then you are already past that point anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 you have a RH750 according to your sig. why not just programme a setting with a different gain level (and more compression) for the slap song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1318695' date='Jul 27 2011, 09:06 PM']You have a point, but if you provide too little gain then you are hamstringing the poweramp section, it can only amplify what you give it. If you are talking valve amps then by the time you are soft clipping (overdrive) then you are already past that point anyway.[/quote] It's just another setting on the amp. If you have too little bass it'll sound thin, if you have too little treble/mids it might sound muddy, if you have too little gain it can sound weak. They're all settings that should be set to taste. If you're in a studio, playing as hard as the dynamics of the recording will go then setting the gain by that is totally the right way to go, but that's with (ideally) mostly transparent pre-amps, if the gain is going to change the tonality (which it does on an amp) then you should set it to what sounds good, not what you can get away with without clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 [quote name='LukeFRC' post='1318704' date='Jul 27 2011, 09:13 PM']you have a RH750 according to your sig. why not just programme a setting with a different gain level (and more compression) for the slap song?[/quote] Plus one...have a setting for anything you consider 'hard attack', say a louder section of a song where you might dig in more. Have another for normal situations. Have another with different gain and compression for the slap passages. Thats the big advantage of that amp. Plus, the compressor is actually pretty good for onboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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