Bass Guitar Mag Janek Gwidzala

[bigd1]

Just been re reading Janek's "Modern Bass Improvisations" in issue 35 of Bass Guitar Magazine. I say re read as I find what he has to say rather hard to accept. Firstly he claims to practice his exercises up to 10 hours a day ! Now we all know players who may play their given instrument all day or night, but to just be playing exercises for 10 hours, hmmmmmm yeah right.
Second, he says start slowly about 50bpm, and then increase by 10bpm to improve speed. (no problem with that great advice) He then claims to go up to 400bpm playing through the first 3 Fragments.
Now that means as the [b]1st & 2nd Fag[/b] is in quavers (eighth notes) at 400bpm he is saying he can play 1600 notes per minuet ! but then[b] Fag 3[/b] is semi quavers (sixteenth notes) making 3200npm.
I'm would say this is not possible and even if it was, what would be the point. At that king of speed it would just sound like one long note or glissando.
Some might say the point is the challenge of playing at 400bpm. I can sort of see that although, you may think I'm a bit old fashioned but, music is about just that making music, not how fast can I play it.

[BigBeefChief]

I'd take anything written in that magazine with a huge pinch of salt. Its mostly a load of nonsense. Its either musos showing off with excersises with no musical relevance or reviews that are to scared to give any product less than 3 stars for fear of upsetting the distributor.

Style over substance, month after month.

[bigd1]

What I find wrong with this kind of thing is. New players read this kind of rubbish and believe it. Janek & the editor should have more respect for the people who are going to read what they write & publish.

[Pris-]

[quote]....music is about just that making music, not how fast can I play it.[/quote]

Isn't that just 100% well said?

[birdy]

[quote name='bigd1' post='152209' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:03 AM']Just been re reading Janek's "Modern Bass Improvisations" in issue 35 of Bass Guitar Magazine. I say re read as I find what he has to say rather hard to accept. Firstly he claims to practice his exercises up to 10 hours a day ! Now we all know players who may play their given instrument all day or night, but to just be playing exercises for 10 hours, hmmmmmm yeah right.
Second, he says start slowly about 50bpm, and then increase by 10bpm to improve speed. (no problem with that great advice) He then claims to go up to 400bpm playing through the first 3 Fragments.
Now that means as the [b]1st & 2nd Fag[/b] is in quavers (eighth notes) at 400bpm he is saying he can play 1600 notes per minuet ! but then[b] Fag 3[/b] is semi quavers (sixteenth notes) making 3200npm.
I'm would say this is not possible and even if it was, what would be the point. At that king of speed it would just sound like one long note or glissando.
Some might say the point is the challenge of playing at 400bpm. I can sort of see that although, you may think I'm a bit old fashioned but, music is about just that making music, not how fast can I play it.[/quote]

I dont know how much you know about Janek but from my experiences of both his playing and his communication he seems to be a very honest and humble human being as well as being an extraordinary musician.

After reading many of his threads on his Talkbass forum it comes as no suprise that he would play just exercises for up to 10 hours a day and I fully believe him.

I don't know what the point would be in playing that fast but Janek obviously thinks it improves his overall playing.

I am sure others will leap to his defence also.

Why not ask him the same question as above on his talkbass forum? I am sure he would take the time to explain why he feels his advice to be beneficial.

Steve

Edited March 6, 2008 by birdy

[BigBeefChief]

Its why I'm never a fan of these supposedly "famous" bass virtuosos. Without opening the "role of bass guitar" can of worms, I have no interest in the overly technical, usually solo, non musical crap that most of them churn out. Fair enough if others are impressed and find it satisfying, its just really not my thing.

The best thing about the magazine is the interviews with bassists that have actually made it in a band scenario. People who have developed their own style and helped shape the sound of great bands. People like Duff McKagan and Glen Matlock. I doubt they could complete Janek Gwidzala's techinacl excercises, but I know who I'd rather sound like (and who's bank ballance I'd rather have).

Or maybe thats just me making excuses for my technical inability??!

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bigd1' post='152209' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:03 AM']at 400bpm he is saying he can play 1600 notes per minuet ! but then[b] Fag 3[/b] is semi quavers (sixteenth notes) making 3200npm.[/quote]
you make some salient points but I couldn't help noticing (and being distracted by) your typo, thats a delicious mistake

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='152244' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:43 AM']Or maybe thats just me making excuses for my technical inability??![/quote]
definitely

[BigBeefChief]

Thought so.

[Stuart Clayton]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='152217' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:12 AM']I'd take anything written in that magazine with a huge pinch of salt. Its mostly a load of nonsense. Its either musos showing off with excersises with no musical relevance or reviews that are to scared to give any product less than 3 stars for fear of upsetting the distributor.

Style over substance, month after month.[/quote]

BigBeefChief - I'd be very interested to hear what you consider to be 'muso's showing off with exercises with no musical relevance'. I think the columns in the magazine are well structured and offer something for most players. Consider the latest issue: Andrew McKinney's column on learning to read music (a great sight-reading myth buster, and ideal for less experienced players), Janek's scale fragment exercises (I don't think it really matters how fast you play these, the musical content is great at any speed), and Dave Marks's Anthony Jackson style analysis. I personally think that overall, that makes for some pretty solid, musically relevant and interesting content.

As for reviewers being afraid to give bad reviews for fear of upsetting distributors - I'm a reviewer, and if I ever review anything that's truly awful, I'll say so. Most of the stuff we see is pretty good, and is built to a very decent standard. If it's well-built, sensibly priced and fit for purpose it's not going to get a poor score is it?

Stuart

[BigBeefChief]

Personally, the issue for me stems from being taught "lessons" by people I have no desire to emulate, in an overly academic fashion. To some this is interesting - great. To others like me, its not. You may tell me that Janek played a stormer at the 2003 Luton Solo Bass Festival, but this really isn't my scene. I'd rather sound like Lemmy.

As for style analysis, I learnt more from the full transcriptions in the Punk Issue than Dave Marks' articles. These isn't a dig at him, far from it. My view is that styles develop naturally through playing the bass lines of your idols, not through learning in a classroom. Again, personal preference.

As for the reviews, I'm at work now so difficult to dig out some examples. But it often seems that the body of the text (which is often formulaic and lacks originality) is incongruous with the rating: ie "a very good bass for the money, well worth check out = ***" and "dissapointing, problems with finish and there are better out there = ***".

Don't get me wrong, I still buy the magazine. This is just my personal opinion.

[Jase]

I reckon Janek is an extremely accomplished bass player, he probably does have a strict practice regime, I'd get some practice in too if I had to play with the likes of Mike Stern and Hiram Bullock

There's a youtube vid with Janek playing in bullocks band and he's just doing his thing, being a bass player. I haven't read Janek's Bass improvisation article but judging by what he has to offer as a musician it's probably relevant to a lot of players. I don't think these articles are written for us to emulate a certain player, you can't just read a page and sound like Janek, take them for what they are I reckon, like Stuart mentioned, the musical content is there at any speed.

[Rich]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='152267' date='Mar 6 2008, 11:12 AM']Personally, the issue for me stems from being taught "lessons" by people I have no desire to emulate, in an overly academic fashion. To some this is interesting - great. To others like me, its not. You may tell me that Janek played a stormer at the 2003 Luton Solo Bass Festival, but this really isn't my scene. I'd rather sound like Lemmy.[/quote]Well ok... if you don't like the lessons, don't use 'em. You got a lot from the punk ones, whereas someone else will have hated them and learned more from the Janek thing or the Anthony Jackson style file. It's tomayto/tomarto really, isn't it? Horses for course, one man's meat, etc etc etc. In fairness you can't pan the mag for not catering specifically to your needs.

[2wheeler]

I think there's a lot of valuable material in Janek's BGM contributions.

When you see his playing, it's amazing he got that technical facility with ONLY 10 hours practice a day. Also I would say he can do both musical, supportive bass playing and dextrous pyrotechnics. I wish I had that choice...

Ultimately I have no idea how many notes he can play or how long he plays them. I know how fast I can play and Janek's tips (among other things) are helping me to get faster. I know how long I practice and Janek's column helps inspire me to play a bit longer. What more can you ask for?

[BigBeefChief]

Agreed, I can't pan the mag for not catering to my needs, and I'm not trying to. I'm purely stating that personally the tutorials are rarely of any relevance to me. I find it strange that people are so impressed with technical prowess. It seems a lot of the people doing the tutoring in BGM are mostly popular amongst bass guitarist and very few else. Never a good sign in my book. But of course, thats just in my rather odd book.

What I can pan the mag for are crap reviews, being badly written and a kiss arse mentality towards manufacturers.

When was the last time it reviewed an album and said "utter sh*t"? Lets face, most bass solo albums are but BGM refuses to recognise this. Maybe the mag feels a sense of loyalty to these artists and solo bass playing as a whole which clouds their (better) judgement?

Edited March 6, 2008 by BigBeefChief

[BigRedX]

I can see both sides of this arguement.

Janek is a great and very accomplished musician, and while a lot of what he does isn't relevant to me, I can appreciate it.
However after seeing/hearing his first piece at Bass Day 2007 I did have the overwhelming urge to ask him who played bass in his band...
Also he made some (IMO) rather disparaging remarks about some the the 'less technical' gigs and sessions he does. I'm not so sure about the ethics of this. If you're going to do simpler stuff in order to pay the bills so you can play what you really want fine, but leave it at that and don't look down on it.

[Doc B]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='152267' date='Mar 6 2008, 11:12 AM']As for style analysis, I learnt more from the full transcriptions in the Punk Issue than Dave Marks' articles. These isn't a dig at him, far from it. My view is that styles develop naturally through playing the bass lines of your idols, not through learning in a classroom. Again, personal preference.

As for the reviews, I'm at work now so difficult to dig out some examples. But it often seems that the body of the text (which is often formulaic and lacks originality) is incongruous with the rating: ie "a very good bass for the money, well worth check out = ***" and "dissapointing, problems with finish and there are better out there = ***".[/quote]

The punk issue of BGM is by far the best issue they've done - fantastic work there.

That one and the one with John Paul Jones on the cover are the only ones I've bought in about a year. I only by Bassist once or twice a year depending on who's in it too. I usually don't know who half the people in the bass mags are. Then again I don't think I ever recovered from the demise of Bassist.

The review in BGM and BP are pointless really - I just go online for owners' reviews to get a more honest and informed view.

[Mike]

I'd like to listen to some of Janek's work - I think I'll download some from itunes today.

I recall somebody said in the "I hate jazz" thread that it bugs them when people say "cats" ie. "there are a lot of hip cats playing in NYC".

This is from a Janek interview:

[i][b]And this is something you’ve checked out? And that you can tell? [/b]

Oh yeah, very deeply. But not as deeply as some of the cats I’m playing with, which is my main reason for living in New York. I can get my ass kicked every day of the week by someone who is better than me and more advanced. It’s inspiring and makes me work that much harder. Some of the cats in the US start extremely young. I was 19 starting at Berklee with cats in my class at 17 that had already had some of the biggest offers for some of the biggest gigs in the world. [/i]

[BigBeefChief]

Glad I'm not the only one.


All I'd like is a bit of honesty. Whats wrong with admitting the new MIA Jazz is overpriced with little improvement? What's wrong with stating that a bass solo album is crap? If your brave enought to release a product/album to the world then your brave enough to get some honest opinion about it.

[Doc B]

[quote name='Mike' post='152383' date='Mar 6 2008, 02:03 PM']I'd like to listen to some of Janek's work - I think I'll download some from itunes today.

I recall somebody said in the "I hate jazz" thread that it bugs them when people say "cats" ie. "there are a lot of hip cats playing in NYC".

This is from a Janek interview:

[i][b]And this is something you’ve checked out? And that you can tell? [/b]

Oh yeah, very deeply. But not as deeply as some of the cats I’m playing with, which is my main reason for living in New York. I can get my ass kicked every day of the week by someone who is better than me and more advanced. It’s inspiring and makes me work that much harder. Some of the cats in the US start extremely young. I was 19 starting at Berklee with cats in my class at 17 that had already had some of the biggest offers for some of the biggest gigs in the world. [/i][/quote]

My cat bites me when I try to play with him.



I'll get me coat....

[Jase]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='152384' date='Mar 6 2008, 02:04 PM']Glad I'm not the only one.


All I'd like is a bit of honesty. Whats wrong with admitting the new MIA Jazz is overpriced with little improvement? What's wrong with stating that a bass solo album is crap? If your brave enought to release a product/album to the world then your brave enough to get some honest opinion about it.[/quote]


I dunno, £769 in Andertons Music, not a bad price for the new MIA Jazz.

[Bilbo]

I pretty much stopped buying bass mags a long time ago. If you read about 30 articles, you have got all you are going to get out of them.

So what if Johnny Thunder uses a .40 G string or Pete Wally uses a Zon SonicHyperTensionBassomatic 12 string bass? It really means nothing in terms of your own development. Changing your strings/bass/amp will make about 1% difference to the overall effect (Ok - its probably 3%).

I am kind of with the BigBeefChief on this one (Never thought I would say that!). People need to study music not musicians. Know your scales, chords etc to the level you require for the music you are playing, know your genre/idiom, know what you need to make your mark in the industry of your choice (if you are dead set on a career in Coutry music, two handed tapping versions on 'Flight Of The Bumble Bee' in all keys are probably a waste of effort).

The fact is that we all play with different agendas in mind and our differing 'ambitions' will determine the extent to which we feel we need to invest time in our playing. A hardcore Punk bass player who gigs three times a year will inevitably have a different perspective on his or her playing than a wannabe professional fusion freak. When I started playing bass (1980), there was a sense that the bass player could pretty much play all types of music without too many difficulties in transferring techniques and ideas from genre to genre. Nowadays, if you want to do Heavy Metal and need to do the Sheehan thing, you are going to have to spend more time on it than I did when HM was Steve Harris or Geezer Butler. Likewise, Jamerson's playing, whilst sophisticated, is nowhere need as heavy as Gary Willis', Michael Manring's or Victor Wooten's. The bass heroes of my day (Jaco/Stanley Clarke etc) were not like the atheletes we see today: Feraud, Wooten, Manring etc. Most of what Jaco did is perfectly achieveable for the average bassist nowadays; same with Stanley Clarke's slap playing - it's pathetic compared to what some of the 9-year olds on YouTube are doing.

If you want to compete with these guys (Gwizdala etc) then 10 hours a day will go some way to doing it. It's up to the individual to decide where they want to take it. Remember, writing about music is like dancing about architecture. Reading about music is like WATCHING someone dance about architecture. Fundamentally useless. Its all in the playing.

Take what you can from these articles but be warned: speed decieves. Its ideas that matter and technique without ideas is the ultimate folly.

PS - If you get to play like Jaco, you will need an Erskine, Zawinul or a Shorter to work with. They are a lot harder to come by than new gear!

[mcgraham]

+1

I occasionally pop into Smiths to see what is featured in music mags, not necessarily bass, but unfortunately it never seems to interest me. It doesn't help that I scour the internet for useful articles on music, theory, technique, interviews etc anyway, and I've found many useful articles (and infinitely more useless articles than that!) that have been more instrumental (no pun intended) in helping me improve and inspiring me.

Of all things I wish I could see more of, it'd be a greater diversity of lessons from other types of instrumentalist with more qualitative lessons that have various levels of application rather than just for the beginning punk bassist or just for the advanced jazz muso. I fully believe it'd help create more rounded musicians, although I admit that I have completely ignored this from a sales perspective.

Mark

[Doddy]

I really don't understand some peoples perspectives sometimes(no one particular-just in general). If you really love your instrument(in this case the Bass)and strive to be a better player,why would you dismiss articles such as Janek's? Learning to play exercises such as these can only help you to improve as a player. If you want to play straight 8 rock,country or whatever,thats great,but don't dismiss the more technical side of the instrument and vice versa. Remember,you never hear anyone complain that they [u]know[/u] how to play something!

[BigBeefChief]

Fair point, and to some degree I agree that having a greater ability and more knowledge isn't a bad thing.

However, what I don't like is the association between technical ability with being a great bass player/musician. Agreed, you need to have the ability to transfer whats "inside" to your audience, but you don't need to be the world greatest technician. If I spent 10 hours a day practicing, I'd be pretty good technician. I'd still be (by my definition) a lousy musician.

BGM loves to put these people on a pedestal, lording them for playing with such "greats" as "Erki Boneflap", "Milton Stonebake" and the "Milk Lake Quartet". ie Music for Musos (the only people who appreciate their technical ability and can ignore the fact that it actually sounds pretty crap).

Gwidzala may make a living by being a very good player but I'd rather listen to/ be inspired/taught by the bloke who wrote "Peaches".