Bass Guitar Mag Janek Gwidzala

[birdy]

I have read some absolute bullshit on forums but this thread takes the biscuit.

[s_u_y_*]

[quote name='birdy' post='154054' date='Mar 9 2008, 06:00 PM']I have read some absolute bullshit on forums but this thread takes the biscuit.[/quote]

+1.

[devinebass]

+1!!!

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='birdy' post='154054' date='Mar 9 2008, 06:00 PM']I have read some absolute bullshit on forums but this thread takes the biscuit.[/quote]

It's pathetic really isn't it.

So called musicians slagging off a fellow musician, over an article written in a magazine that's designed purely to help those wanting to improve their playing.

And the laugh of it all, is that Janek is a widely respected New york based English player, touring the world, playing for some of the top jazz and pop musicians such Mike Stern, what have the majority of the people who posted negative comments on here ever acheived ?.

I asked someone last weekend if they ever checked basschat out out, they replied "don't you mean bitch chat".

[clauster]

Just read this thread in all its glory!

Shame to have seen it descend into the usual slagging match that always follows BBC (especially as this time he wasn't the first to start getting personal, just expressed (and owned) his opinion). BBC if you want a chance to vent your spleen in a supportive environment come to the next Sweet FA gig in the Tonbridge area. Can't beat them for a good chance to heckle

To get back on thread.....

It amazes me that mostly everyone who has contributed on the subject of this thread is naive enough to believe that the magazine is written to appeal to bass players. The title alone is enough to ensure that every issue will be bought by a significant number of bassists. The contents are there to promote the advertisers' interests. At the mo this (as far as I can see) is the contemporary music schools, so the mag has to promote the idea that bassists must be able to play all the modes of every scale at mega bpm on ERB's.

If GAK, Fender, Rickenbacker, Ashdown etc start being the largest advertisers then these technical tutorials and articles will disappear to be replaced with lessons on "How to Avoid Getting Your Scarf Caught in Your Strings" and "Which waistcoat buttons are least damaging to the back of your bass". If it's BC Rich then it'll be "How to stop your spandex causing static interference"

Alright, so I'm guilty of some fascetiousness here but seriously, the revenue generated by magazine sales is peanuts compared to advertising revenue. It ain't us it is written for, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='154122' date='Mar 9 2008, 07:35 PM']It's pathetic really isn't it.

So called musicians slagging off a fellow musician, over an article written in a magazine that's designed purely to help those wanting to improve their playing.

And the laugh of it all, is that Janek is a widely respected New york based English player, touring the world, playing for some of the top jazz and pop musicians such Mike Stern, what have the majority of the people who posted negative comments on here ever acheived ?.[/quote]

I have a bronze swimming badge and was once a contestant on Fun House. Slightly more impressive than Janek's pedigree, I'm sure you'll agree.



So what your saying is that unless we have achieved as much as a given musician, we're not allowed to critique them??

Also, if you read through the thread, no one had slagged him off until he showed up and threw his toys out of the pram. He writes in a magazine. He's therefore open to criticism.

Fair play for him coming on here and defending his position. He has every right to. In the same way that crap bassists like me have a right to air my views.

[birdy]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='154136' date='Mar 9 2008, 07:55 PM']Also, if you read through the thread, no one had slagged him off until he showed up and threw his toys out of the pram. He writes in a magazine. He's therefore open to criticism.[/quote]

Just when I was falling in love with you you go and blow it with this statement.

The very first post of the thread was slagging him off unless I am on a completely different planet to you and my perception of slagging someone off is wildly different.

Steve

[Hit&Run]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='154122' date='Mar 9 2008, 07:35 PM']I asked someone last weekend if they ever checked basschat out out, they replied "don't you mean bitch chat".[/quote]
I love it!

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='birdy' post='154139' date='Mar 9 2008, 07:59 PM']Just when I was falling in love with you you go and blow it with this statement.

The very first post of the thread was slagging him off unless I am on a completely different planet to you and my perception of slagging someone off is wildly different.

Steve[/quote]

Different planet i'm afraid.

Re-read it. Its not slagging anyone off. If anything it has an "am I understanding this properly" tone about it.

What part do you think is defamatory?

[birdy]

[quote name='bigd1' post='152209' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:03 AM']Just been re reading Janek's "Modern Bass Improvisations" in issue 35 of Bass Guitar Magazine. I say re read as I find what he has to say rather hard to accept. Firstly he claims to practice his exercises up to 10 hours a day ! Now we all know players who may play their given instrument all day or night, but to just be playing exercises for 10 hours, hmmmmmm yeah right.
Second, he says start slowly about 50bpm, and then increase by 10bpm to improve speed. (no problem with that great advice) He then claims to go up to 400bpm playing through the first 3 Fragments.
Now that means as the [b]1st & 2nd Fag[/b] is in quavers (eighth notes) at 400bpm he is saying he can play 1600 notes per minuet ! but then[b] Fag 3[/b] is semi quavers (sixteenth notes) making 3200npm.
I'm would say this is not possible and even if it was, what would be the point. At that king of speed it would just sound like one long note or glissando.
Some might say the point is the challenge of playing at 400bpm. I can sort of see that although, you may think I'm a bit old fashioned but, music is about just that making music, not how fast can I play it.[/quote]

This to me is slagging the guy off.

hmmmmmmm yeah right is stating that his claims are not believed. The whole tone of this post is mildly aggressive in my opinion.

[birdy]

[quote name='bigd1' post='152231' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:30 AM']What I find wrong with this kind of thing is. New players read this kind of rubbish and believe it. Janek & the editor should have more respect for the people who are going to read what they write & publish.[/quote]

This is also slagging him off. Reading this king of rubbish....should have more respect etc...

Steve

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='birdy' post='154144' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:05 PM']This to me is slagging the guy off.

hmmmmmmm yeah right is stating that his claims are not believed. The whole tone of this post is mildly aggressive in my opinion.[/quote]


If thats the worse thing thats ever been written about Janek, he's a lucky, lucky boy.

[birdy]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='152479' date='Mar 6 2008, 04:29 PM']I'd say the boy is a talented player but has some mouth, sort of like a young Jeff Berlin. Some things he says or brags you find yourself thinking if all that woodshedding has meant that he has less developed people skills. Watch bassplayer tv and if you watch his 'clinic' you'll see him sway one moment from NYC kicks my ass to I know best gorilla chest beating. He 'll grow out of it eventually.[/quote]

This to my mind is also mildly aggressive towards Janek.

Note at this point he still hasn't responded.

Steve

[BigBeefChief]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Perhaps I have thicker skin than most. I've been called a tosser in this very thread. I haven't stormed off in a huff. Although I'm sure that would be pretty popular with most.

[Mike]

I can't believe how quickly this degenerated. For my $0.02, JG did seem to jump a little down my throat when I mentioned Paul McCartney, in relation to something another poster had said, and asked if I really believed Macca didn't know his theory....I was going on what the good man Howard Goodall said!

Still, shame for it all to finish like this!

For those who don't know JG, check out his music on itunes. I'm digging it.

[ped]

Groan

[birdy]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='154152' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:14 PM']We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Perhaps I have thicker skin than most. I've been called a tosser in this very thread. I haven't stormed off in a huff. Although I'm sure that would be pretty popular with most.[/quote]

So you don't mind being called a tosser. Neither do I but surely the golden rule really should be to treat people the way that you would like to be treated. Maybe I am oversensitive but if I was Janek I would have been upset by this thread at the point before he joined in, especially if music was so important to me that I made it my whole life as he does.

Its not hard to respect people really is it.

Steve

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='birdy' post='154161' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:25 PM']So you don't mind being called a tosser. Neither do I but surely the golden rule really should be to treat people the way that you would like to be treated. Maybe I am oversensitive but if I was Janek I would have been upset by this thread at the point before he joined in, especially if music was so important to me that I made it my whole life as he does.

Its not hard to respect people really is it.

Steve[/quote]

Firstly, I think he's being overly sensitive. But thats his choice.

Secondly, as I've pointed out several times - Its part and parcel of being a performer. If you don't want criticism (constructive or otherwise), get off the stage.

[jakenewmanbass]

I think we should ask ourselves what level of criticism should take place in this environment, and being relatively new to the online world I'm beginning to feel that caution is the better part of valour, or to put it another way, the thick skinned can handle anything (me included) but the thin skinned can't and perhaps we should all have consideration for the thinner skinned end of the forum, so as to maintain a friendly atmosphere.
Janek seems eloquent and able and I'm sure to be doing the work he is, he must be a good musician. My view is that he would have displayed more dignity if he had not posted, however upsetting he found the criticisms, and some were quite harsh and unthinking. My reasoning is that in such debates the truth usually lies somewhere between and as the published individual in the piece I felt he was in a no win situation.

[birdy]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='154165' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:30 PM']Firstly, I think he's being overly sensitive. But thats his choice.

Secondly, as I've pointed out several times - Its part and parcel of being a performer. If you don't want criticism (constructive or otherwise), get off the stage.[/quote]

Thats a fair enough viewpoint but I just dont see whats achieved by NON constructive critiscism. The whole forum would maybe be better if we all tried to be a little more constructive and nicer. I give in on this now because I am bored of my own voice.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='154165' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:30 PM']Firstly, I think he's being overly sensitive. But thats his choice.

Secondly, as I've pointed out several times - Its part and parcel of being a performer. If you don't want criticism (constructive or otherwise), get off the stage.[/quote]

The difficulty with that BBC is that here the line between poster and performer is blurred and as posters, we are persons.

Edited March 9, 2008 by jakesbass

[7string]

[quote name='clauster' post='154126' date='Mar 9 2008, 07:41 PM']It amazes me that mostly everyone who has contributed on the subject of this thread is naive enough to believe that the magazine is written to appeal to bass players. The title alone is enough to ensure that every issue will be bought by a significant number of bassists. The contents are there to promote the advertisers' interests. At the mo this (as far as I can see) is the contemporary music schools, so the mag has to promote the idea that bassists must be able to play all the modes of every scale at mega bpm on ERB's.

Alright, so I'm guilty of some fascetiousness here but seriously, the revenue generated by magazine sales is peanuts compared to advertising revenue. It ain't us it is written for, he who pays the piper calls the tune.[/quote]

Guitarists have had similar kind of technical lessons (tricky licks at 200bpm) for many years now. It would be a shame if similar items in bass magazines went the same way.

With regards to advertising interest, that's a very interesting viewpoint that I hadn't thought of.


[quote name='jakesbass' post='154168' date='Mar 9 2008, 08:37 PM']I think we should ask ourselves what level of criticism should take place in this environment, and being relatively new to the online world I'm beginning to feel that caution is the better part of valour, or to put it another way, the thick skinned can handle anything (me included) but the thin skinned can't and perhaps we should all have consideration for the thinner skinned end of the forum, so as to maintain a friendly atmosphere.
Janek seems eloquent and able and I'm sure to be doing the work he is, he must be a good musician. My view is that he would have displayed more dignity if he had not posted, however upsetting he found the criticisms, and some were quite harsh and unthinking. My reasoning is that in such debates the truth usually lies somewhere between and as the published individual in the piece I felt he was in a no win situation.[/quote]

I don't think that stuff typed against Janek was anything personal as it was based on the item brought up by the OP. The really personal stuff is against BBC. I've feel his posts are typed with his tongue firmly placed in his cheek and have had a good laugh at some of his posts.

Janek came out fighting fire with fire and I do agree with [b]jakesbass[/b] that it would have been better for him if he had not posted. As I've said before if i see his name in print the first thing I will think of is his posting here and not of a bassist, artist or writer.

Edited March 9, 2008 by 7string

[bigd1]

My original post was in no way a "slagging off" of anybody, it was and still is a request for an explanation of an article in a magazine that I found hard to believe.
I didn't make any comments about anybodies playing, style, musical taste, ability or any other personal comments.
I thought posting a observation I had made would make an interesting topic.
Maybe a discussion of this type is to much to ask, although I didn't think it to be that hard.

BIGd

[NickThomas]

[quote name='bigd1' post='154239' date='Mar 9 2008, 10:25 PM']My original post was in no way a "slagging off" of anybody, it was and still is a request for an explanation of an article in a magazine that I found hard to believe.
I didn't make any comments about anybodies playing, style, musical taste, ability or any other personal comments.
I thought posting a observation I had made would make an interesting topic.
Maybe a discussion of this type is to much to ask, although I didn't think it to be that hard.

BIGd[/quote]

you should be very proud of yourself ... I could only ever dream of saying anything interesting enough to warrant 117 replies over 9 pages LOL

[7string]

[quote name='bigd1' post='152209' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:03 AM']Just been re reading Janek's "Modern Bass Improvisations" in issue 35 of Bass Guitar Magazine. I say re read as I find what he has to say rather hard to accept. Firstly he claims to practice his exercises up to 10 hours a day ! Now we all know players who may play their given instrument all day or night, but to just be playing exercises for 10 hours, hmmmmmm yeah right.
Second, he says start slowly about 50bpm, and then increase by 10bpm to improve speed. (no problem with that great advice) He then claims to go up to 400bpm playing through the first 3 Fragments.
Now that means as the [b]1st & 2nd Fag[/b] is in quavers (eighth notes) at 400bpm he is saying he can play 1600 notes per minuet ! but then[b] Fag 3[/b] is semi quavers (sixteenth notes) making 3200npm.
I'm would say this is not possible and even if it was, what would be the point. At that king of speed it would just sound like one long note or glissando.
Some might say the point is the challenge of playing at 400bpm. I can sort of see that although, you may think I'm a bit old fashioned but, music is about just that making music, not how fast can I play it.[/quote]

There was nothing wrong with this original post at all. You called it as you saw it...