Compresser

[TRBboy]

I'm assuming that the Boss CS-3 isn't worth looking at? It seems to have all the controls you might need?

If I get a compressor, will I be able to set it up and leave it on the same setting for all styles, or am I gonna have to keep tweaking it all the time?

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1321866' date='Jul 31 2011, 12:15 AM']I'm assuming that the Boss CS-3 isn't worth looking at? It seems to have all the controls you might need?

If I get a compressor, will I be able to set it up and leave it on the same setting for all styles, or am I gonna have to keep tweaking it all the time?[/quote]
therein lies the problem.. for me at least (not being of engineer stock).

i used to have an mb compressore (one of the better pedal comprtessors) but..i faced much difficulty [b]switching between fx and styles of playing[/b]. with no metering (except a single led) it was difficult to tell when and where it made any difference until it mushed my playing.

.. although hopefully someone more experienced than me could explain how to set up a compressor to cope with such scenarios ?

[TRBboy]

Anyone know anything about the Akai Analogue Custom Shop Compressor? Looks well built, true bypass, and same sort of controls as EBS Multicomp etc., but much, much cheaper!

[TRBboy]

Does anyone know if your standard sort of compressors like MXR Dyna Comp work OK with bass? I know people use them, but are they any good?

[dannybuoy]

You need to read this site mate, loads of compressor reviews written by Talkbasser Bongomania:

[url="http://www.ovnilab.com"]http://www.ovnilab.com[/url]

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1323580' date='Aug 1 2011, 09:39 PM']You need to read this site mate, loads of compressor reviews written by Talkbasser Bongomania:

[url="http://www.ovnilab.com"]http://www.ovnilab.com[/url][/quote]
Bongo's number one non-rack compressor is the Markbass Compressore.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1323580' date='Aug 1 2011, 09:39 PM']You need to read this site mate, loads of compressor reviews written by Talkbasser Bongomania:

[url="http://www.ovnilab.com"]http://www.ovnilab.com[/url][/quote]

Many thanks for that mate, what a useful site!

He reviews one that I've been looking at - Biyang CO-8. It's dirt cheap but uses quality parts (in fact, it's apparently the same circuit as MXR Dyna Comp and Ross compressors, but apparently less noise!), and would probably do for my experimentation with compression! I know it's not full-featured, but as he says, it just enhances the tone and sustain, and will probably help to even out the dyanmics of different playing styles a little.

£42.99!!!

[dmccombe7]

Thanks for posting TRBboy
I was interested in this area too but new it would create some "mixed" feelings to say the least.
There has to be a common ground area between the two extremes of the compressor debate where most people probably slot in.
I use the compressor on my GT6B and can hear the benefits when used although they are very slight.
I'm no expert either and basically set it up as suggested in the manual and it seemed to work pretty well for me.
I'm looking to move to seperate pedals as not using the GT6B to its full potential during live performances and its a bit of a handfull to carry around for rehearsals too.
Basically all i need is a tuner and some basic compression for gigs. Amp (and bass) does everything else i need.

Some good advice all round with some really helpful links.

Cheers
Dave

[Robert Manning]

A compressor is an automated volume knob. Dynamic processor.
Buy one and have a play. make sure it has ratio threshold attack release and gain.
The one knob compressors are all those variants being moved around in an algorithm, worked out by the manufacture.
At the end of the day too there's no such this as a better comp unit, only different (okay some may be unusable due to being poorly made etc). They have different circuitry's that leave there own unique Mark on the processed sound.
in essence a compressor is just an automated volume control, adjusted by the parameters which are veritable on the signal they receive. And different makes effect sound by adding subtle harmonics. (not the bass harmonics or music theory) the "physics" kinda harmonics.
Cheers!

[ThomBassmonkey]

I disagree that there's no such thing as a better compressor, compressors should be inaudible while they do their job, bad compressors always sound very obvious whereas a good one will be more subtle. You could argue that some people want to use their compressor as an effect rather than for it's intended purpose but that's a whole different ball game.

Also saying that a compressor is an automated volume knob is vastly over simplifying. The way that it interacts with frequencies, especially on multi band compressors, can be very versatile, not to mention the attack and threshold controls. It does work by changing your volumes, but the way they do it means it's not that simple.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='dmccombe7' post='1325033' date='Aug 2 2011, 11:07 PM']Thanks for posting TRBboy
I was interested in this area too but new it would create some "mixed" feelings to say the least.
There has to be a common ground area between the two extremes of the compressor debate where most people probably slot in.
I use the compressor on my GT6B and can hear the benefits when used although they are very slight.
I'm no expert either and basically set it up as suggested in the manual and it seemed to work pretty well for me.
I'm looking to move to seperate pedals as not using the GT6B to its full potential during live performances and its a bit of a handfull to carry around for rehearsals too.
Basically all i need is a tuner and some basic compression for gigs. Amp (and bass) does everything else i need.

Some good advice all round with some really helpful links.

Cheers
Dave
[/quote]

Thanks Dave, this has been a very interesting thread! Ovnilabs is such a useful resource; I know it's only one guys opinion, but he's tried so many he must have a good idea of what's good and bad.

I really want something that's simple, transparent and quiet, that I don't have to fiddle around with settings. I just want something to help balance out the perceived output from the dynamics of different playing styles. I really like the look of the Rothwell Love Squeeze at the moment, because it ticks all the boxes and is very high quality, but not as dear as some of the others (and it's made in the UK!)

[Robert Manning]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1325115' date='Aug 3 2011, 12:32 AM']I disagree that there's no such thing as a better compressor, compressors should be inaudible while they do their job, bad compressors always sound very obvious whereas a good one will be more subtle. You could argue that some people want to use their compressor as an effect rather than for it's intended purpose but that's a whole different ball game.

Also saying that a compressor is an automated volume knob is vastly over simplifying. The way that it interacts with frequencies, especially on multi band compressors, can be very versatile, not to mention the attack and threshold controls. It does work by changing your volumes, but the way they do it means it's not that simple.[/quote]

I know what I'm talking about.

Ive studied music production for two years and work on logic all day everyday.
I also know what a multiple band compresser is.
I wanted to share some insight in a simply way

Cheers

[Doddy]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1321866' date='Jul 31 2011, 12:15 AM']I'm assuming that the Boss CS-3 isn't worth looking at? It seems to have all the controls you might need?[/quote]
I've seen a few guys using the CS3 (including Marcus Millerand Janek Gwizdala)it was fine and did a
good job.
I've got 3 compressors-an old Ibanez,Aphex Punch Factory,Emma TransMORGrifier-and I pretty much
never use any of them. I've got the Emma on my pedal board but I only really use it to even things
out if I've got an excessive amount of effects turned on at once. 99% of the time it just sits there
looking cool. I never use it under normal playing conditions. In the studio,if they want to add
compression they can but they'll use their own..

[TRBboy]

Thanks again everyone for all the useful info!

After thinking about it some more, and although I don't doubt that the right compressor can make a positive difference to your sound, I'm wondering if it's actually worth the investment when I play in a pub/club rock covers band at the moment? I definitely think it would help to even out the dynamics of finger style/pick/slap and probably help me cut through a little better.

Has anyone read a proper review of the MXR M87 yet? I've looked around but can't find one.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='BeLow' post='1327823' date='Aug 4 2011, 09:29 PM']TRB Boy - In answer to your question about whether a compressor will help you it is a bit difficult to say as we don't know if you have a fairly uniform playing style or not. I have watched the answers as they have come through on this thread and some tend to add more heat than light on the subject. Using a compressor is not right or wrong, it is a choice - which ends up being an individual decision, most sound engineers who are recoridng or using big sound rigs will often use some compression on your bass to 'tidy it up' the signal, whether you are aware of it or not.

I think compressors are useful tools when playing live, as they allow you to operate your gear to operate closer to the peak capacity of your amplification without overloading. It usually also allows you to sit better in the mix especially if you go through a PA and the sound man is worrying about you maxing out his system's headroom with your bass playing spikes. They can also be quite good at 'thickening' up your tone, but this is more subjective.

I note that some people dismiss compressors, this is maybe because a well applied compressor is quite a subtle effect. Some basses and rigs seem to have a level of natural compression, and some players either have very good technique (or a limited dynamic range depending on how you look at it) so may benefit less. I tend to rehearse without a compressor but record and play live with one. Perhaps mistakenly I believe in rehearsals it is good for me to be more aware of the changes in my playing, whereas when people are potentially paying to hear good quality reproduction I add the additional quality control.

One of the reasons I think that bass players debate the topic is that the audience subconsciously hear the benefits more than bass player, they might say things like 'the bass sounded clear / loud tonight' but are less deafened by the wasted energy of the amp spiking and distorting unintentionally. As the bass player you will tend to be 'homed in on your sound' in isolation and hear it less well in context than maybe the audience.

When people say that you can't hear the best units working what I think they mean is that they are not so crudely set up that it is obvious the signal is being compressed (usually referred to as 'squashed'). Some people actually like this effect, but others prefer a natural sounding processor which evens out peaks.

Setting up a compressor always involves a degree of compromise, the unit has react quickly enough to catch the very fast volume increases which the 'front' of a note (bass guitar signals are notorious for this) so that the spike of energy does not ‘get past’ the processor. However if the signal is 'capped' to aggressively the intentional variations in your playing style can also get compressed, and it feels flat.

The simpler units generally set some of the parameters for you. If their sound suits what you need that is fine but given that we all have our own preferences that is quite limiting (could make a compressor joke there but won't). I think at the end of the day you do have to go and try some out. It is tricky as I have said we are not always aware of the benefits and honestly it is difficult to assess how the unit sounds set up in isolation and how it will work in the context of the live band.

The website in the link above is good, but it does represent the views of a single individual testing in some cases single units which might actually have faults. I use a boss CL50 which has adjustable parameters and metering very similar to the rather impressive looking new MXR unit, it gets pretty well panned by the website owner but it works for me at the moment in the band context, as did the optical compressor on my floor pod when I was doing some recording last week. So if you can try some units out then it is worth a go.

Might be worth trying a search on 'how audio compressors work' I found this which might help you get a bit of background. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression[/url] if you can get the basics by reading up a bit it will probably help in the long run.[/quote]

Thanks very much for that, probably the most well balanced and informative post so far.

I like to think that my technique is pretty good, and I have experience in quite a lot of different styles and situations (live/recording/musical theatre), but I'm always quite concious of the differences I perceive in the output(?) of the three main techniques. I generally find (and I'm sure that most other players do) that fingerstyle is fuller and punchier, pick style seems a little louder and obviously cuts through better, and slap never seems to cut through well enough and is quieter. This usually results in me playing far too hard when slapping in a band context because I feel like i'm not being heard. Obviously I adjust the eq and pickup selection on my bass, but I feel that it's more the changes in dynamics than the tonality.

I really don't like to have to fiddle around with loads of settings live though, I set my amp up and then don't touch it, and I don't like to have to fiddle around with pedal settings all the time. That said though, and despite my previous post, I am now favouring the MXR because it has a greater level of control and is specifically designed for bass. I would like to just find a setting that works for me to cover all techniques and then leave it set.

Interestingly, I was reading about Flea's pedal board yesterday, and he just uses an MXR micro amp as a boost for slap parts. I might try doing something like this first as I can do it without buying any more gear!

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1327880' date='Aug 4 2011, 10:08 PM']Thanks very much for that, probably the most well balanced and informative post so far.

I like to think that my technique is pretty good, and I have experience in quite a lot of different styles and situations (live/recording/musical theatre), but I'm always quite concious of the differences I perceive in the output(?) of the three main techniques. I generally find (and I'm sure that most other players do) that fingerstyle is fuller and punchier, pick style seems a little louder and obviously cuts through better, and slap never seems to cut through well enough and is quieter. This usually results in me playing far too hard when slapping in a band context because I feel like i'm not being heard. Obviously I adjust the eq and pickup selection on my bass, but I feel that it's more the changes in dynamics than the tonality.

I really don't like to have to fiddle around with loads of settings live though, I set my amp up and then don't touch it, and I don't like to have to fiddle around with pedal settings all the time. That said though, and despite my previous post, I am now favouring the MXR because it has a greater level of control and is specifically designed for bass. I would like to just find a setting that works for me to cover all techniques and then leave it set.

Interestingly, I was reading about Flea's pedal board yesterday, and he just uses an MXR micro amp as a boost for slap parts. I might try doing something like this first as I can do it without buying any more gear![/quote]


The reply from "BeLoW" was excellent. Got a lot from it. Very balanced and informative without the overkill of theory.

Cheers
Dave

[cheddatom]

A lot of the advice seems to relate to headroom, peaks, getting more out of your gear etc. If that's all you want i'd highly recommend the BOSS Limiter. (just don't use the enhance circuit)

[Finbar]

Might also be worth downloading a few VST compressors and using them with your bass on a computer to see what a fully featured one will actually do?

[EdwardHimself]

*compressor.

[Kiwi]

I've had a long and more or less fruitless search looking for the ideal compressor. I just need something to take the edge off the bass without altering the dynamics. I've found that just having a valve in the signal chain somewhere more or less does the trick for live work.

[xgsjx]

I tried a couple of pedal compressors a few years back & never got on with them. I know a little about compression as I've used it for years in rack format for PA rigs & also in VST format when recording (from the early days of cubase up till now).
The worst pedal I tried was the Boss Comp/Limiter thingy (sorry Chedda, just my experience of it) as it raised the noise floor quite a bit & Moog pedals can pick up a little background noise, so this ended up 10x louder.
I think most pedal compressors are a case of "you'll like it or you wont". I don't use a compressor live, so the answer is No, you don't "Need" one, but you might find one useful.
Do what I did & find some local musicians with different ones (that's when guitarists come in useful).

[cheddatom]

All compression will raise the noise floor, unless you're not using any make-up gain. On the boss LMB-3 the enhance circuit is awful and I think this puts people off.