That Ric Sound

[Guest MoJo]

Why doesn't my 2010 Ric 4003 Sound like this?



This is the sound I associate with Chris Squire and Geddy Lee but my 4003 doesn't sound anything like that. Does the action have to be quite low? What is the secret?

[chrismuzz]

Hitting the strings hard, and having low enough action to give a tiny bit of fret buzz will get you pretty close

[Ou7shined]

Because it's a Hondo with a Ric decal.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1321738' date='Jul 30 2011, 09:30 PM']Because it's a Hondo with a Ric decal.

[/quote]


Bugger

[Mylkinut]

I find I get something like this (or at least as aggressive) with mine if I solo the bridge pickup and play hard - but then again I don't use a pick.

I dribbled over the burgundyglo slightly.

[Ancient Mariner]

Is that tone clean? Sounds a but overdriven to me. The pick will make a huge difference too.

[Mr. Foxen]

The Rick tone is driven valve amp. Pretty much every time. I'm not even sure the Rick figures into it.

[luckman67]

That does sound good,I wonder what his amp settings are.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1321862' date='Jul 31 2011, 12:12 AM']The Rick tone is driven valve amp. Pretty much every time. I'm not even sure the Rick figures into it.[/quote]

+1, too much talk about the tone of the the bass and never enough about the tone of the amp

[xgsjx]

Do Rics usually lack any actual "bass" to their sound, or is it just that video?
Nice looking basses though.

[4000]

The secret is the interaction between a Ric (which is certainly a factor in the equation) and the rig, as well as (obviously) the player. I've found a lot of more modern rigs just don't do it unless you're using effects. Avoid tweeters. Also eq plays a big part; a far bigger part than most realise. I eq heavily. Of course a degree of distortion helps, but my best Ric tone has been through early Trace amps/cabs so it's not always the be all and end all; the right amount of bark from the amp/cab should suffice. I see you're using Trace so I'd use the pre-shape (mid-cut)and eq from there. Use your ears! Low action helps unless you play hard (like Geddy & Lem), as do the right strings (I use Rotos because they're more aggressive, although some hate them).

Edited July 31, 2011 by 4000

[4000]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1321889' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:34 AM']Do Rics usually lack any actual "bass" to their sound, or is it just that video?
Nice looking basses though.[/quote]

As with any other bass, it depends how you eq it and what you're playing it through. Early JJ Burnel doesn't have a lot of "bass" but I don't think many people would suggest a Precision inherently lacks low end. Have you ever heard the Beatles?

[xgsjx]

The Beatles?

Didn't Macca use a Hofner?

I had a wee Youchoob at 4003 & after hearing them, I guess the vid above is using the bridge pick up?

The neck pick up doesn't lack bass.

[merello]

[quote name='4000' post='1321893' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:38 AM']As with any other bass, it depends how you eq it and what you're playing it through. Early JJ Burnel doesn't have a lot of "bass" but I don't think many people would suggest a Precision inherently lacks low end. Have you ever heard the Beatles?[/quote]
Did early Stranglers not feature JJ on Hiwatt guitar cabs as they could not afford bass ones?

[chrismuzz]

It's possible, you can get some pretty gnarly bass tones through guitar amps. I heard a Fender Precision through a Marshall guitar stack a few weeks ago and loved it! As opposed to nearly every guitar I've heard through a Marshall stack which sounds like pure donkey farts

Edited July 31, 2011 by chrismuzz

[4000]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1321908' date='Jul 31 2011, 02:21 AM']Didn't Macca use a Hofner?[/quote]

Mostly Ric on Revolver, all Ric on Sgt Pepper And MMT....

[4000]

[quote name='merello' post='1321916' date='Jul 31 2011, 06:23 AM']Did early Stranglers not feature JJ on Hiwatt guitar cabs as they could not afford bass ones?[/quote]

Yep. I've used guitar rigs in the past myself and got very good results.

[Jerry_B]

Sounds like the backing track is filling out the tone a bit.

[hairyhaw]

[quote name='merello' post='1321916' date='Jul 31 2011, 06:23 AM']Did early Stranglers not feature JJ on Hiwatt guitar cabs as they could not afford bass ones?[/quote]

It wouldn't surprise me. CS used guitar amps himself up to the mid seventies. He was using Fender stuff around the time of The Yes Album and Sunn Coliseum guitar heads and cabs up to about '76 I think. He's been using Marshall bass stuff in the last twenty years or so and that took quite a lot of the bite out of his tone IMO.

And what the feck are you guys doing up at half six on a Sunday morning?!

[4000]

[quote name='hairyhaw' post='1322108' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:03 PM']It wouldn't surprise me. CS used guitar amps himself up to the mid seventies. He was using Fender stuff around the time of The Yes Album and Sunn Coliseum guitar heads and cabs up to about '76 I think. He's been using Marshall bass stuff in the last twenty years or so and that took quite a lot of the bite out of his tone IMO.

And what the feck are you guys doing up at half six on a Sunday morning?![/quote]

Actually Chris originally used his 60s Marshall (which he says has more treble than the typical lead amps, never mind the bass ones), then went to Fenders (Dual Showmans I believe), then Sunn Colliseum guitar heads (in preference to the bass ones which he didn't like) and then eventually found his way round to Ampeg, which he's been using for ages. His Marshall is still in there - possibly always has been and he is in stereo after all - but it's been Ampeg for ages now. I personally think the change to Ampeg coincided with the perceived lack of bite; if you watch the very early footage of him using his Marshall stack it's extremely in-your-face, probably the most it ever was. I know a bloke who could probably pinpoint [i]exactly[/i] when he changed from what to what but I'll leave that to him.

EDIT: just found this on the net - not sure about the purple bit though, it doesn't look it on pics I've seen.

"It’s a late 60’s purple 100 watt Super Bass Head. Chris says that it has more high end that most of the Marshall guitar heads. He amp setting were Treble:10, Middle:6, Bass:4, Presence:10, Volume:4".

Edited July 31, 2011 by 4000

[hairyhaw]

[quote name='4000' post='1322125' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:23 PM']Actually Chris originally used his 60s Marshall (which he says has more treble than the typical lead amps, never mind the bass ones), then went to Fenders (Dual Showmans I believe), then Sunn Colliseum guitar heads (in preference to the bass ones which he didn't like) and then eventually found his way round to Ampeg, which he's been using for ages. His Marshall is still in there - possibly always has been and he is in stereo after all - but it's been Ampeg for ages now. I personally think the change to Ampeg coincided with the perceived lack of bite; if you watch the very early footage of him using his Marshall stack it's extremely in-your-face, probably the most it ever was. I know a bloke who could probably pinpoint [i]exactly[/i] when he changed from what to what but I'll leave that to him.

EDIT: just found this on the net - not sure about the purple bit though, it doesn't look it on pics I've seen.

"It’s a late 60’s purple 100 watt Super Bass Head. Chris says that it has more high end that most of the Marshall guitar heads. He amp setting were Treble:10, Middle:6, Bass:4, Presence:10, Volume:4".[/quote]

Good research! Just had a looky about myself and saw some pictures of a show by The Syn and there's an SVT cab sitting in the background. I suppose logistically they're a lot easier to get a hold of/hire etc. Can't help but feel he's shot himself in the foot tone-wise because of it though.

[4000]

Just been looking in my "From the Pages of Guitar Player magazine - Bass Heroes" book and Chris (interviewed in '73) gives a really good breakdown of his gear, from the AC30 head and cabs he used in the Syn to the Sunns. He says his settings on the Sunn were "6 on the volume knob, 4 on the low frequency control, 3 on the high frequency, 5 on the mid frequency and 10 on the treble". He also says he has the volume and tone on his treble pickup wide open and the volume on the neck pickup is near full and the tone knob sits at 4 (not sure how he works that out as there are no numbers on his controls and no detents either!). The Ric Resource Forum has a whole section devoted to Chris but I seldom get round to reading it.

Getting back to Chris's sound, obviously a lot of that is him, some of it is the stereo etc, but bear in mind the old RM1999s (indeed older Rics per se) sound somewhat different than newer Rics. For a start there's the horseshoe pickup, discontinued around '69 (and the reissues aren't the same at all), then there's the 1/2" position toaster neck pickup, different pot values etc and slightly different construction. But with the right strings, amps, eq etc and approach, you should be able to approximate it.

Edited July 31, 2011 by 4000

[hairyhaw]

[quote name='4000' post='1322194' date='Jul 31 2011, 03:30 PM']Just been looking in my "From the Pages of Guitar Player magazine - Bass Heroes" book and Chris (interviewed in '73) gives a really good breakdown of his gear, from the AC30 head and cabs he used in the Syn to the Sunns. He says his settings on the Sunn were "6 on the volume knob, 4 on the low frequency control, 3 on the high frequency, 5 on the mid frequency and 10 on the treble". He also says he has the volume and tone on his treble pickup wide open and the volume on the neck pickup is near full and the tone knob sits at 4 (not sure how he works that out as there are no numbers on his controls and no detents either!). The Ric Resource Forum has a whole section devoted to Chris but I seldom get round to reading it.[/quote]

Yeah, I've read most of those threads on the RRF. I still lurk there from time to time but the quite unbelievable level of sycophancy put me off posting. Still 'twas a good source of info for a lot of stuff like the time CS tripped and broke the headstock off the RM and the botched repair job after. Still, its good hearing the stuff you're quoting - that's the first new stuff I've read about his gear set up in a good while.

[quote name='4000' post='1322194' date='Jul 31 2011, 03:30 PM']Getting back to Chris's sound, obviously a lot of that is him, some of it is the stereo etc, but bear in mind the old RM1999s (indeed older Rics per se) sound somewhat different than newer Rics. For a start there's the horseshoe pickup, discontinued around '69 (and the reissues aren't the same at all), then there's the 1/2" position toaster neck pickup, different pot values etc and slightly different construction. But with the right strings, amps, eq etc and approach, you should be able to approximate it.[/quote]

Yeah, agreed. I came off stage after a gig with my old originals band one night and an older guy that had been watching came up and went "good gig - you quite like Chris Squire don't you?". Totally rumbled. I'd played it with my '05 4003, a Korg AX1B, and an Ashdown Mag300 410T. Apart from the bass, about as far from Squire's gear as you could get.

Don't think it's so much an action thing either - mine isn't the lowest and you could drive a bus through CS's.

Edited July 31, 2011 by hairyhaw

[4000]

[quote name='hairyhaw' post='1322207' date='Jul 31 2011, 03:47 PM']Yeah, I've read most of those threads on the RRF. I still lurk there from time to time but the quite unbelievable level of sycophancy put me off posting. Still 'twas a good source of info for a lot of stuff like the time CS tripped and broke the headstock off the RM and the botched repair job after. Still, its good hearing the stuff you're quoting - that's the first new stuff I've read about his gear set up in a good while.



Yeah, agreed. I came off stage after a gig with my old originals band one night and an older guy that had been watching came up and went "good gig - you quite like Chris Squire don't you?". Totally rumbled. I'd played it with my '05 4003, a Korg AX1B, and an Ashdown Mag300 410T. Apart from the bass, about as far from Squire's gear as you could get.

Don't think it's so much an action thing either - mine isn't the lowest and you could drive a bus through CS's.[/quote]

If you look at Chris's action then and Chris's action now it seems to have gone up a bit. FWIW, apparently the neck on his bass is incredibly thin, far thinner than most Rics from any era.

I think when trying to approximate someone's sound (assuming you want to) you've got to start with what you sound like and work from there. Sometimes that means using similar gear, sometimes it doesn't.

[Guest MoJo]

I've been playing with the settings on my Trace's preamp and with the pre-shape in, a bit of valve, judicial use of the graphic EQ and compressor I'm getting much more of what I hear as a Ric tone