Bilbo Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If you haven't got a knot of frustration in your stomach when you are practising, you are probably not learning anything new and should find something more challenging/demanding which does produce that visceral effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I know what you mean - there's no point in endlessly repeating stuff you can play comfortably - but on the other hand, I'm not sure that being in a permanent state of frustration with one's instrument is all that helpful either, and could even lead to some people giving up altogether. I think there needs to be a balance - frustration when trying to push boundaries, but also release and a sense of achievement when these boundaries are successfully overcome. And once a new technique or piece is mastered, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a new sense of ease in repeatedly playing something which was once so hard to do. These are the "highs" that incentivize us to then move on to the next boundary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 [quote name='Earbrass' post='1324389' date='Aug 2 2011, 03:38 PM']I know what you mean - there's no point in endlessly repeating stuff you can play comfortably - but on the other hand, I'm not sure that being in a permanent state of frustration with one's instrument is all that helpful either, and could even lead to some people giving up altogether.[/quote] That's about playing time, not practising. You practise to improve your playing; the reward is being more comfortable and at ease in the playing you do after you have practised. I agree with the need to ensure that you reward yourself with playing but I think it is important to distinguish between what is practising and what is playing. You can play forever and never practice anything. I just decided I don't know how to spell practice/practise/practicing/practising. Maybe I should try harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) From my POV, I often play bass to wind down, or to take my focus off something else. Not sure I'd like it to always be problematic. Sometimes I like easy street. That's why I'm playing, cos it's easy... man. Edited August 2, 2011 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1324405' date='Aug 2 2011, 03:50 PM']I just decided I don't know how to spell practice/practise/practicing/practising. Maybe I should try harder.[/quote] It's really easy - just remember that all those word pairs (practice/practise, license/licence etc) go like advice/advise, which you won't confuse because they sound different - ie the verb uses an 's' and the noun uses a 'c'. You practise when you would advise, and your practice is like your advice. Licensing is like advising. A licence is like advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 This is where I make the difference between practising and rehearsing.If I'm practising I'm trying to learn something new,and to do this there is always going to be a certain amount of frustration but also an even greater sense of satisfaction. As fun and important as it is to play through your favourite licks and songs again and again,there very quickly comes a point where you are neither progressing or learning something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 All depends on why you play, how good you are, and what expectations you have of your playing dunnit. For me, it'd never cross my mind to think that in order to enjoy playing bass, it'd either have to be performance / rehearsal or intense "practice" to the point frustration. I'd think there's loads of fun to be missed out on if that's all I did with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I like a balance of the two in any given practise session. If there's only enjoyment and no accompanying sense of 'this is too hard', then it isn't amounting to progressive practice and I don't feel satisfied that I'm going anywhere. If there's only a sense of 'this is too hard' and no accompanying enjoyment due to progression, then it isn't amounting to progressive practice and I don't feel satisfied that I'm going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1324354' date='Aug 2 2011, 03:18 PM']....If you haven't got a knot of frustration in your stomach when you are practising, you are probably not learning anything new....[/quote] Being frustrated is not a good frame of mind to be learning anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkle Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) The corresponding feeling when you manage to do whatever the particularly hard thing you've been working on is very satisfying. It's all a balance. Work on an exercise or similar that is too far beyond your level, and you can get frustrated if it is truly beyond you. Too easy and you're not pushing yourself hard enough to learn more. Just right, and you feel 'pushed' and tired after practicing but although it is a significant effort it is manageable. This is one reason a good teacher is essential, at least early on. A really good one knows just how hard to push you. You may not be a good judge of this yourself as you think. My 2p. Pete Edited August 2, 2011 by funkle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1324438' date='Aug 2 2011, 05:10 AM']This is where I make the difference between practising and rehearsing.[/quote] Ahh yes, one of my favorite pet peeves! Especially when it applies to Drummers/Guitards who show up at rehearsal unprepared. You [b]practice[/b] at home. You [b]rehearse[/b] with the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkle Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 [quote name='GonzoBass' post='1325759' date='Aug 3 2011, 03:22 PM']Ahh yes, one of my favorite pet peeves! Especially when it applies to Drummers/Guitards who show up at rehearsal unprepared. You [b]practice[/b] at home. You [b]rehearse[/b] with the group.[/quote] Too true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I'm always busy playing for fun at either a rehearsal or gig so I only really ever play at home for a reason which will either be learning tracks for a gig or at the moment trying to improve my reading/theory. Bit of frustration then a lot of satisfaction when it clicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 For me, learning is trying to 'get' something. Practice is what I do with the knowledge after gaining it. Fun is when I have it in memory and want to show off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 This is a really interesting thread for a beginner like me. I think when practising I start off feeling frustrated that I can't do it properly. Then feel really pleased if it starts to sound better. Then notice that it still sounds a bit ropey and needs more practice. So then go back to feeling frustrated. You could probably draw some sort of diagram to illustrate this frustrated - pleased - frustrated circle! But I always 'reward' myself at the end of each session by playing something really fun and trying not to worry if it goes wrong or not. (At the moment, this would be 'Enter Sandman' by Metallica!) But then you play it once and think 'ok, if I just did it again and concentrated more, maybe I wouldn't have played all those bum notes in the middle'. So then you're back to practicing again! Another diagram may be called for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1324354' date='Aug 2 2011, 03:18 PM']If you haven't got a knot of frustration in your stomach when you are practising, you are probably not learning anything new and should find something more challenging/demanding which does produce that visceral effect.[/quote] IMO, frustration is a hindrance. It means you are setting your goals too high, and if this situation does not change, there is a possibility that a person would give up altogether. Learning any instrument to it's full potential is a life time process which never ends. This learning process is best done in small increments, keeping the goals within reason. The idea is to enjoy the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 If you're frustrated when practising, you're probably doing the wrong stuff - that's why a good teacher is invaluable. And he doesnt have to be a bassplayer necessarily.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='Faithless' post='1327317' date='Aug 4 2011, 04:27 PM']If you're frustrated when practising, you're probably doing the wrong stuff - that's why a good teacher is invaluable. And he doesnt have to be a bassplayer necessarily..[/quote] Definitely agree about the teacher. I have a great teacher, very inspirational. But I do admit to feeling frustrated at times when practising. maybe I'm trying to run before I can walk. One of the many good things about going to lessons regularly is that I never want to turn up not having improved at all since last time (I'm going fortnightly at the moment). So it's really good motivation. Always come out of the lesson feeling great and eager to pracice new stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='Coilte' post='1327201' date='Aug 4 2011, 03:39 PM']IMO, frustration is a hindrance. It means you are setting your goals too high, and if this situation does not change, there is a possibility that a person would give up altogether. Learning any instrument to it's full potential is a life time process which never ends. This learning process is best done in small increments, keeping the goals within reason. The idea is to enjoy the ride.[/quote] I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are. My goal as a player is to be better than I am now,so I naturally practice stuff that is beyond me.If it means I get a feeling of frustration because I'm struggling with it,I can be sure that I'll work on it until I can play it-which is when I get a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment that is far greater than any amount of frustration I felt a couple of hours earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1327407' date='Aug 4 2011, 04:53 PM']I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are. My goal as a player is to be better than I am now,so I naturally practice stuff that is beyond me.If it means I get a feeling of frustration because I'm struggling with it,I can be sure that I'll work on it until I can play it-which is when I get a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment that is far greater than any amount of frustration I felt a couple of hours earlier.[/quote] I agree that it depends on the type of person. There is not a musician alive who does not strive to be better than they are now. A person wont progress by playing or practicing things they already know. However, you can make better progress in the long term (not to mention avoiding too much frustration) by taking practice in small steps. For example, a new player picking up bass for the first time is unlikely to learn much by diving straight into modes. He/she needs to learn the notes on the fretboard first, then scales and chords ect. The perfect way to practice IMO is to start at the bottom and build on the information learned in the previous session. Otherwise, later on you will discover that you missed something crucial along the way, and have to back track. You have to learn to walk before you can run. As I said in my other post, to do it right is a life time process. Jumping the gun is not the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Even when taking small steps,you see frustration in a player when they struggle with something new. I see it all the time when I'm teaching-you give someone an exercise and if they can't get it right away they get annoyed with it.The difference comes when one person takes that annoyance as an incentive to be able to nail it,while another will just dismiss it.The one who works through it will have a greater degree of satisfaction at the end of it. I'm not arguing about starting with a solid foundation and building your way up but at every level you should get challenged,and it's how you handle that challenge that makes the difference. I've never seen anyone not get at least a little frustrated when they are struggling with something new to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1327775' date='Aug 4 2011, 08:55 PM']Even when taking small steps,you see frustration in a player when they struggle with something new. I see it all the time when I'm teaching-you give someone an exercise and if they can't get it right away they get annoyed with it.The difference comes when one person takes that annoyance as an incentive to be able to nail it,while another will just dismiss it.The one who works through it will have a greater degree of satisfaction at the end of it. I'm not arguing about starting with a solid foundation and building your way up but at every level you should get challenged,and it's how you handle that challenge that makes the difference. I've never seen anyone not get at least a little frustrated when they are struggling with something new to them.[/quote] I basically agree with you. I never denied that some frustration is inevitable, or that you must challange yourself. That's part of the learning process. My point is that if a person jumps too far ahead, they may find themselves out of their dept, not overcome or solve the problem, and become so frustrated as to impinge their progress, and their general attitude to learning. The trick IMO, is keeping the frustration to a minimum. You'll learn and progress much more if practice is [b]fun.[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Well, I think that it's different where people see the frustration. Personally, I'm frustrated about becoming a good player in a long run, and the problem is that even the right practice can't guarantee me that - that's where frustration happens. In other words - even if you buy a lottery ticket, it doesnt guarantee you a million itself. Speaking of frustration at the very moment of practising - I don't feel any, because, first of all, I know that my teacher gives me the 'rightest' stuff that can be given to me, secondly - even if I cant pull off that stuff at the moment, I'm still not frustrated, because sooner or later, with focused practice (which involves repetition) I'll get past that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='Faithless' post='1328558' date='Aug 5 2011, 12:09 PM']Personally, I'm frustrated about becoming a good player in a long run, and the problem is that even the right practice can't guarantee me that - that's where frustration happens.[/quote] Frustration certainly wont make anyone a good player in the long run, and while there is no guarantee that patient methodical practice will either, my money will always be on the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeSuisSkeleton Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1324531' date='Aug 2 2011, 05:01 PM']Being frustrated is not a good frame of mind to be learning anything.[/quote] Agreed. I don't think I've ever learnt anything when I'm frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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