Safe buying protocol?

[Rhythm Shack]

Hi
Could you guys outline the usual proceedings when buying a bass from another forum member? i.e Without the protection of Ebay and PayPal what precautions can you take when buying from someone who is effectively a stranger to you?

Here's what I had in mind but any suggestions would be welcome;
Do you have the original invoice?
Does the bass come with any warranty?
Is it in 100% good condition?
Has it had, or does it need a set up?
Is there a hard case?
Could you tell me how it would be packed?
Delivery cost?
Would you accept payment via PayPal?

Cheers.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Rhythm Shack

[basskit_case]

[quote name='Rhythm Shack' post='1325343' date='Aug 3 2011, 10:32 AM']Hi
Could you guys outline the usual proceedings when buying a bass from another forum member? i.e Without the protection of Ebay and PayPal what precautions can you take when buying from someone who is effectively a stranger to you?

Here's what I had in mind but any suggestions would be welcome;
Do you have the original invoice?
Does the bass come with any warranty?
Is it in 100% good condition?
Has it had, or does it need a set up?
Is there a hard case?
Could you tell me how it would be packed?
Delivery cost?
Would you accept payment via PayPal?

Cheers.[/quote]

I think the feedback system on here works very well. If a BC'er has a good feedback thread associated with them then that is good enough for me, obviously if they are newbie's with no feedback then it can be a bit of a punt

[andydye]

I've done a couple of transactions on here and have had no problems so far...

my checklist is...

plenty of photos and a good description of it incl details about cases/blemishes etc (you'll not get warranty from a private sale), sound clips if poss but not essential
plenty of good feedback in the feedback section for the seller (you'll be wanting to build up a good reputation for yourself on here too)
lots of good contact back and forth discussing the item and the sale via pm
home address and phone numbers exchanged via pm
a couple of good conversations by phone
payment via paypal if postal (or cash if in person) - paypal fees should be discussed (even cash gifts on paypal require fees but you can choose who pays the fee)
agree what day the posting will occur and ask for confirmation by text and get a tracking number
follow on-line
leave cracking feedback

packaging is the responsibility of the seller, I wouldn't insult their intelligence by asking how they'll be doing it
set-up is very mouch a personal thing, one man's low action may be another man's bow and arrow, suggest you learn how to do the basics yourself and also find a good place that can sort out any serious issues
most of the reassurance of the buy/don't buy is related to building a degree of relationship with the seller
feedback is as important to the guys and gals on here as it is on ebay
I also feel a bit like there's a bit of an honour code on here built on growing and maintaining trust

Hope that helps and you don't feel like I'm trying to teach you to suck eggs or anything...

[Shawman]

[quote name='basskit_case' post='1325357' date='Aug 3 2011, 10:37 AM']I think the feedback system on here works very well. If a BC'er has a good feedback thread associated with them then that is good enough for me, obviously if they are newbie's with no feedback then it can be a bit of a punt[/quote]

sadly, even that could potentially turn into another 'Raze' situation (extremely unlikely though) as our pal Mr Punkdude found out

Edited August 3, 2011 by Shawman

[thisnameistaken]

I would always assume that any bass I buy will need a set-up. Chances are the last owner's setup won't be to my liking.

Same with strings - first thing I do with any bass is re-string it. So when I see ads that justify the value of a used bass by mentioning how expensive the last setup and set of strings was I usually give up on the idea of agreeing a price with that seller.

As for the condition of the bass / whether a case is included, this stuff should be in the for sale listing. If it isn't, then you should certainly find out before you part with any money!

I've never bought a bass guitar on here that I didn't collect in person, mostly because there's so many things that a photo doesn't show and opportunities for couriers to cause damage which can at best cause a headache for one or both parties, and at worst can result in someone being out of pocket and a soured relationship.

I also like to be able to pick the thing up and assess it myself before I hand over any money, although to be fair every bass I have bought has been fairly described and I've never (so far!) gone to meet someone and not come home with the bass I'd agreed to buy.

Smaller items like pedals I've received through the post because they're easy to pack, cheap to ship, and relatively sturdy. Although I did once receive a Bass Micro Synth (fairly un-sturdy pedal) rattling around in a box four times the volume of the pedal with a single sheet of bubblewrap to protect it, from a seller who lived about a mile away who I'd offered to go collect it from in person. :/

But yeah, just be careful. If the seller doesn't seem trustworthy, or something about the item or the trade terms doesn't sit well with you, then don't do the deal. Very few once-in-a-lifetime basses pass through this place, and more often than not if you miss out on something it'll come back up for sale in six months anyway when the buyer realises it wasn't the holy grail he hoped it would be.

[basskit_case]

[quote name='Shawman' post='1325422' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:28 AM']sadly, even that could potentially turn into another 'Raze' situation (extremely unlikely though) as our pal Mr Punkdude found out [/quote]

Missed that, what happened?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='basskit_case' post='1325440' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:39 AM']Missed that, what happened? [/quote]


Me too

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1325445' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:41 AM']Me too[/quote]


Oh wait I remember I lent someone some scratchplates for his new 'carbon fibre scratchplate business' never got them back?

[dc2009]

Paypal payment as a gift for items sold on here is a banned activity, if someone asks for it, point them in the right direction, and if you're dubious of why they're asking for it, alert a mod.

[Shawman]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=95307&hl=raze"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=95307&hl=raze[/url]

seemed like a good standing member, then posted asking for people's scratchplates so he could copy them and make them out of carbon fibre, none of the plates have been returned and he's never been heard of again

Edited August 3, 2011 by Shawman

[charic]

If he's never been heard from again then maybe it's something less sinister although potentially sad?

[Shawman]

[quote name='charic' post='1325471' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:55 AM']If he's never been heard from again then maybe it's something less sinister although potentially sad?[/quote]

i thought of that too, but looking at 'Lest seen on 10th March '11' on his profile makes me doubt that

[chris_b]

[quote name='andydye' post='1325374' date='Aug 3 2011, 10:47 AM']....packaging is the responsibility of the seller, I wouldn't insult their intelligence by asking how they'll be doing it....[/quote]
It's not about questioning someone's intelligence, but I would always discuss the packaging. Mostly things have gone well for me, but I've had a couple of items that weren't well packaged, so I would double check that they are on the same page as you.

Also, I would always try to meet up.

[basskit_case]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1325496' date='Aug 3 2011, 12:10 PM']It's not about questioning someone's intelligence, but I would always discuss the packaging. Mostly things have gone well for me, but I've had a couple of items that weren't well packaged, so I would double check that they are on the same page as you.

Also, I would always try to meet up.[/quote]

I bought a bass from somebody on eBay with good feedback, they dispatched it in a old tatty padded gig bag with a few polystrene pieces and nothing else.
The courier was City Link yet it arrives in one piece and ontime, the postage label had just managed to stay tuck to the gig bag.

[edstraker123]

I've sold a lot of gear on here and generally it is an extremely positive experience with a chance to meet with fellow Basschatters. I did have one transaction however whereby I arranged to meet a foreign buyer in London,bought a train ticket for £50 only for him then to back out and leave me high and dry. When I look back I realise how naive I had been and whilst most BCers are thoroughly decent people, there are always exceptions. Just adopt a sensible approach to the deal and don't leave yourself open to any losses should things not work out.

Edited August 3, 2011 by edstraker123

[andydye]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1325449' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:43 AM']Paypal payment as a gift for items sold on here is a banned activity, if someone asks for it, point them in the right direction, and if you're dubious of why they're asking for it, alert a mod.[/quote]

I didn't know that! How is it supposed to happen please? (for future reference)

[dc2009]

[quote name='andydye' post='1325556' date='Aug 3 2011, 12:41 PM']I didn't know that! How is it supposed to happen please? (for future reference)[/quote]

When you send a paypal payment it can be marked as goods, services or gift (IIRC). Marking it as a gift exempts the seller from fees (again IIRC) but obviously offers you no protection if you don't get an item (because you weren't paying for an item you were sending a gift). Just asking to send it as a gift is banned on BC and many other forums. I always mark it as goods, though I guess services isn't beyond the realms of possibility if it's a repair job or something.

Edited August 3, 2011 by dc2009

[redstriper]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1325449' date='Aug 3 2011, 11:43 AM']Paypal payment as a gift for items sold on here is a banned activity, if someone asks for it, point them in the right direction, and if you're dubious of why they're asking for it, alert a mod.[/quote]

I didn't know it was banned and I've used that method a few times - which direction do you mean?

[dc2009]

[quote name='redstriper' post='1325577' date='Aug 3 2011, 12:53 PM']I didn't know it was banned and I've used that method a few times - which direction do you mean?[/quote]

It is banned for a seller to ask the buyer to pay him 'marked as a gift' on paypal

[redstriper]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1325581' date='Aug 3 2011, 12:55 PM']It is banned for a seller to ask the buyer to pay him 'marked as a gift' on paypal[/quote]

Oh yes, that's because paypal don't want to lose their fees - it's free if you pay with funds from your paypal account.
I thought you meant it was banned by this forum where it's quite a common practise afaik.

[dc2009]

[quote name='redstriper' post='1325599' date='Aug 3 2011, 01:05 PM']Oh yes, that's because paypal don't want to lose their fees - it's free if you pay with funds from your paypal account.
I thought you meant it was banned by this forum where it's quite a common practise afaik.[/quote]

I did mean it's banned on this forum, I read it somewhere last month or so (I've had a search but can't for the life of me remember where). Of course paypal don't want to lose your fees, but equally you don't want to lose your money when you've just agreed a deal on a forum, and BC aren't exactly rolling in it and able to reimburse you like eBay are. This is why it's banned on here, I'm aware that it goes on, but any buyer should be wary of a seller asking him to do this - I have done it (only as a buyer not as a seller) before I read the post about it on here, but will refuse to do so in future.

[Mr. Foxen]

If you gift, paypal takes the fees from your side rather than from the payment. It doesn't lose paypal fees, there are various circumstances where there are no fees, like if you have funds in paypal, or have set up direct debit.

[flyfisher]

I've bought a couple of things here 'remotely', though neither were particularly pricey so not a great risk. I also paid by bank transfer, which is effectively instant and anyone trying it on is unlikely to want to give out their full name and bank account details. Both transactions were fine and the items arrived within a few days, well packaged and in good condition.

For everything else, I've collected in person and paid cash. Not much risk that way.

I couldn't imagine buying a bass unseen though. I'd want to handle it and check how it feels to me.

[basskit_case]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1325618' date='Aug 3 2011, 01:16 PM']I did mean it's banned on this forum, I read it somewhere last month or so (I've had a search but can't for the life of me remember where). Of course paypal don't want to lose your fees, but equally you don't want to lose your money when you've just agreed a deal on a forum, and BC aren't exactly rolling in it and able to reimburse you like eBay are. This is why it's banned on here, I'm aware that it goes on, but any buyer should be wary of a seller asking him to do this - I have done it (only as a buyer not as a seller) before I read the post about it on here, but will refuse to do so in future.[/quote]

Why have we banned it, surely its up to Paypal to enforce not this forum?

Not having a go, just interested as to why.

[Machines]

I am unaware of any ban, to be honest it's something for a buyer to worry about. We can only give so much guideance before people must take on responsibility for themselves.