Pitch perception when using headphones

[dincz]

I've recently been practising using headphones and found that as I increase the volume, the apparent pitch of any given note drops as much as a semitone. It really showed up when I recorded a vocal part while monitoring previously recorded tracks on headphones. The vocal track was noticably sharp (around 25 cents) on playback. My ears are normally very good (much better than my fingers) and I'm known as a pitch pedant, so this is a concern to me.

Has anyone else come up against this problem and found a solution?

Edited August 3, 2011 by dincz

[Lfalex v1.1]

As a long-time headphone practiser, I have to say I've not experienced this.
If volume is skewing your pitch perception above a certain level, keep it below the certain level for critical performances if possible (?)
I find headphones a good way to practise. Leaving aside the lack of noise, (good, proper) headphones can give a transient response, harmonic distortion, dynamic range and frequency response that loudspeaker designers can only dream of.
Add in a lack of time-smear, no room interactions or any real phase issues (due to lack of a crossover) and they're streets ahead.

Negative issues? A few.
No visceral, "monster", "I can't breathe!" bass reproduction.
Can be VERY revealing of playing misdemeanours!
Long term comfort can be questionable
You can easily damage your hearing by wnding up the volume without realising how loud your headphones really are.

[Lozz196]

I`ve noticed when doing vocals that if I`m wearing headphones I sing flat, whereas if I`m singing along to the tracks played through speakers, I`m in correct pitch. No idea why either.

[Blademan_98]

I can't sing but I do use headphones.

I've had no problems with pitch (playing on my fretless).

I use Bass Buds for in ear monitoring and Sony closed back (with bass response) for recording.

[wez]

I've used headphones for a while for practicing a not come across this problem although my hearings not the best. But would agree with Lfalex it could be volume, but would like to know the reason if this is wrong.

[Monckyman]

Some people have this problem, the trick is to keep the volume down or try monitoring with one earpiece off.
Sade used to refuse to wear headphones in the studio because of this, so an elaborate rig of two monitors wired out of phase in the live room had to be used. The idea being if positioned correctly the out of phase signal wouldn`t be picked up by the mono source (mic).
It worked coz her recordings sound great.

[Mr. Foxen]

Is it bone conduction throwing you off, because of the speed of soun in bone and the inside of your ear binging moved from the wrong side?

[ficelles]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1326348' date='Aug 4 2011, 12:31 AM']Is it bone conduction throwing you off, because of the speed of soun in bone and the inside of your ear binging moved from the wrong side?[/quote]

That's an interesting theory, but the difference in the speed of sound in bone (which would be quite high, around 3500 m/s) and the normal hearing mechanism wouldn't affect pitch, although it would affect timbre and high frequency attenuation. Of course there could also be some sort of resonance involved... the answer I would say is as others have said to keep the volume down!

ficelles

[neepheid]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1326207' date='Aug 3 2011, 10:00 PM']You can easily damage your hearing by wnding up the volume without realising how loud your headphones really are.[/quote]

I have a simple test for that - I take the headphones off and put them in my lap and play some music through them. If I can hear the music at that range then it's too loud.

[dincz]

Thanks for all the feedback. I've since poked around on the web and it seems to be a well known phenomenon. The consensus seems to be:
1 Keep the volume down.
2 Especially the bottom end - a tinny headphone mix works better for pitch perception.

[WinterMute]

When you sing without headphones, you monitor your pitch by listening to both the sound through the bone and through the air, when you listen to headphones, the sound through the air is replaced with a version very slightly delayed by the recording system, the delay is usually imperceptible (unless you have severe latency problems) but it is enough to change your perception of the sound.

Many stutterers do not stutter when their voices are played back to them in real time, it's the same principle.

Simple solution is to seat one of the phones behind your ear and you'll hear a mixture of the track and your voice as you usually hear it. Some singers prefer not to use headphones and use monitors, Freddy Mercury famously used to record with a hand held mic standing between the monitors in the control room, of course you have to put the mic out of phase otherwise the spill is horrendous.....!

[lettsguitars]

if you're right handed your pitch perception comes from the left ear which is the side you listen to yourself with, and vice-versa. This is why you only use one side of the 'cans'. right handed-left side off, left handed-right side off.

Edited August 4, 2011 by lettsguitars

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1327085' date='Aug 4 2011, 02:58 PM']if you're right handed your pitch perception comes from the left ear which is the side you listen to yourself with, and vice-versa. This is why you only use one side of the 'cans'. right handed-left side off, left handed-right side off.[/quote]

Am deaf in my right ear and right handed. Probably out of tune and never realised then?

[uncle psychosis]

When listening to a sound normally a large part of what you hear is reflections from the walls, ceiling, floor, etc. When you put headphones on you don't get those reflections anymore and so the sound your ears gets will probably be perceived differently.

If anyone has ever been in an anechoic chamber its a very similar effect---its very, very hard to play in tune in one.

[dincz]

Just to complicate things even more:

[url="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/pitch.html#c3"]http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase...d/pitch.html#c3[/url]

Details About Pitch

Although for most practical purposes, the pitch of a sound can be said to be simply a measure of its frequency, there are circumstances in which a constant frequency sound can be perceived to be changing in pitch.

One of most consistently observed "psychoacoustic" effects is that a sustained high frequency sound (>2kHz) which is increased steadily in intensity will be perceived to be rising in pitch, whereas a low frequency sound (<2kHz) will be perceived to be dropping in pitch. (More detail)

The perception of the pitch of short pulses differs from that of sustained sounds of the same measured frequency. If a short pulse of a pure tone is decaying in amplitude, it will be perceived to be higher in pitch than an identical pulse which has steady amplitude. Interfering tones or noise can cause an apparent pitch shift.

Further discussion of these and other perceptual aspects of pitch may be found in Chapter 7 of Rossing, The Science of Sound, 2nd. Ed.

[Count Bassy]

Isn't some of the problem simply that you just can't hear yourself properly. Your blocking out a major aural input (Mouth to ear via the air) while flooding the remaining one (Bone transmission) with the sound track. I know at one singer who wears earplugs (wisely), but if there is then no foldback he goes a bit flat. No earplugs or earplugs + foldback and he's fine.

Edited to add: I can generally sign very in tune, but if I'm singing along at a concert where I can't hear myself well, or just through the bone then I know go out of tune (I've heard it and it's not pretty).

Edited August 4, 2011 by Count Bassy

[Blademan_98]

I did a quick test today.

Using my fretless, I recorded a couple of bars listening through my headphones.

I then recorded just through the DI.

I played them both back through the tuner.....

Guess what? They were both the same!

Edit: Just for clarity, they were as bad as each other

Edited August 4, 2011 by Blademan_98

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='dincz' post='1327818' date='Aug 4 2011, 09:25 PM']Further discussion of these and other perceptual aspects of pitch may be found in Chapter 7 of [b]Rossing[/b], The Science of Sound, 2nd. Ed.[/quote]

I've met Tom Rossing a couple of times. Nice guy. So there!

[4000]

I've suffered with this ever since getting my Beyer DT100s and then going to a digital recording setup (Ableton). Unfortunately I got the 16 ohm Beyers so struggle for volume (realised too late to take them back). I've never, ever suffered with pitch issues before. Was thinking of changing the 'phones for something else; I know I can get an outboard amp but not sure it's worth it.

[BottomE]

For the last 10 years I have used phones to practice. I've never had the pitch problem you are getting. The only negative is that i have to get my ears syringed every few years.