Graphite Body Basses

[Smash]

Does any other manufacturer do a complete Graphite body like Status do with their Stealth basses?

[Kiwi]

Gus Guitars could do one for you by hand laying a shell over a wooden core.

Alternatively there's Miller in Germany but I don't think they get a lot of business given they've diversified into other things.

[henry norton]

Wasn't the original Steinberger one-piece carbon fibre moulding?

[BigRedX]

There's plenty of manufacturers offering basses with composite bodies and necks.

Take a look at:

[url="http://www.basslab.de/"]BassLab[/url]

[url="http://www.bogart-bass.de/"]Bogart[/url] - with Blackstone bodies

[url="http://www.emeraldguitars.com/"]Emerald Guitars[/url]

[url="http://www.gusguitars.com/product.php?model_id=7"]Gus Guitars[/url]

[url="http://www.miller-instruments.com/"]Miller Instruments[/url]

[url="http://mosesgraphite.com/"]Moses Graphite[/url]

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more...

I'd certainly be interested if [url="http://www.xoxaudiotools.com/"]these people[/url] ever made a bass version.

Edited August 5, 2011 by BigRedX

[Smash]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1328419' date='Aug 5 2011, 10:45 AM']There's plenty of manufacturers offering basses with composite bodies and necks.

Take a look at:

[url="http://www.basslab.de/"]BassLab[/url]

[url="http://www.bogart-bass.de/"]Bogart[/url] - with Blackstone bodies

[url="http://www.emeraldguitars.com/"]Emerald Guitars[/url]

[url="http://www.gusguitars.com/product.php?model_id=7"]Gus Guitars[/url]

[url="http://www.miller-instruments.com/"]Miller Instruments[/url]

[url="http://mosesgraphite.com/"]Moses Graphite[/url]

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more...

I'd certainly be interested if [url="http://www.xoxaudiotools.com/"]these people[/url] ever made a bass version.[/quote]


Amazing help thanks very much

[Kiwi]

[quote name='henry norton' post='1328356' date='Aug 5 2011, 10:08 AM']Wasn't the original Steinberger one-piece carbon fibre moulding?[/quote]
It was but resin based injection rather than monocoque layering.

[XylemBassGuitar]

What's the idea/benefit behind having a graphite body? I know graphite is more stable than wood, but is it lighter too? Do they supposedly change the tone?

[henry norton]

[quote name='XylemBassGuitar' post='1330038' date='Aug 6 2011, 04:36 PM']What's the idea/benefit behind having a graphite body? I know graphite is more stable than wood, but is it lighter too? Do they supposedly change the tone?[/quote]
Yeah I've often wondered that. Considering the strength/weight/stability advantage you get when carbon composite is done properly I've always been disappointed how heavy and primitive most carbon guitars I've tried have been (although I've never tried the woven carbon composite skinned Gus guitars, which look like a better of the material). At the risk of being flamed, it makes me think most luthiers making guitars out of composites don't really understand the materials they're working with.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='henry norton' post='1330066' date='Aug 6 2011, 05:00 PM']Yeah I've often wondered that... At the risk of being flamed, it makes me think most luthiers making guitars out of composites don't really understand the materials they're working with.[/quote]

I think you're clearly the one who doesn't understand the materials, you say as much at the start of your post.

With a graphite body or neck you get light weight, high structural rigidity and strength and tonal benefits. Take a graphite neck. It's stable because it's so tough, it's light because they're usually hollow and it imparts a wonderful tone. In fact, I remember Rob Green of Status Graphite saying that he believed graphite colours the sound less than wood, so you're actually getting a 'purer' tone!

I used to have a Status Stealth bass which was a monocoque design, essentially a one piece carbon fibre bass. It was very light and it sounded fantastic. Consider that carbon fibre costs a lot more for luthiers to work with than wood - they are not choosing it to be different, they are choosing it because they consider it superior in it's application to wood. Hence why Status don't make wooden necks anymore. Hence why Zon's wooden neck range are their budget basses. etc etc.

I currently have a Status Series II, a 1980's model with a proper graphite 'cricket bat' through neck. It sounds amazing; so clear, powerful and even. Even the new Status S2 basses don't sound like that because there is less carbon fibre in them now. I'll have a fretless bass coming soon with a woven graphite neck and I can't bloody wait!

[henry norton]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1330073' date='Aug 6 2011, 05:13 PM']I think you're clearly the one who doesn't understand the materials, you say as much at the start of your post.

With a graphite body or neck you get light weight, high structural rigidity and strength and tonal benefits. Take a graphite neck. It's stable because it's so tough, it's light because they're usually hollow and it imparts a wonderful tone. In fact, I remember Rob Green of Status Graphite saying that he believed graphite colours the sound less than wood, so you're actually getting a 'purer' tone!

I used to have a Status Stealth bass which was a monocoque design, essentially a one piece carbon fibre bass. It was very light and it sounded fantastic. Consider that carbon fibre costs a lot more for luthiers to work with than wood - they are not choosing it to be different, they are choosing it because they consider it superior in it's application to wood. Hence why Status don't make wooden necks anymore. Hence why Zon's wooden neck range are their budget basses. etc etc.

I currently have a Status Series II, a 1980's model with a proper graphite 'cricket bat' through neck. It sounds amazing; so clear, powerful and even. Even the new Status S2 basses don't sound like that because there is less carbon fibre in them now. I'll have a fretless bass coming soon with a woven graphite neck and I can't bloody wait![/quote]
Ahhh the flamessssss!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I do understand the materials which is why I found the Status S2, Steinberger, Alembic and Modulus necked Precision to be much heavier (so far as I was concerned), they needed to be. As it is, I had a look at Big Red X's list and it looks like a few makers are now using thinner structural skins (like the Gus I mentioned), so I stand corrected there, but I don't believe some of the earlier makers did really understand just how much lighter they could have made their instruments. I feel somewhat vindicated by your own admission that the later S2s have less carbon fibre in them, presumably because Rob Green has realised he dosesn't need as much!

I hope the bloody wait is bloody worth it

[Chris2112]

[quote name='henry norton' post='1330098' date='Aug 6 2011, 05:39 PM']I feel somewhat vindicated by your own admission that the later S2s have less carbon fibre in them, presumably because Rob Green has realised he dosesn't need as much![/quote]


I suspect it's just as much due to the price of the material and the shrinking profit margin, really. Or will you be telling him he is wasting his time making the Stealth basses and the graphite Kingbass and S2 models?

[henry norton]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1330109' date='Aug 6 2011, 05:46 PM']I suspect it's just as much due to the price of the material and the shrinking profit margin, really. Or will you be telling him he is wasting his time making the Stealth basses and the graphite Kingbass and S2 models?[/quote]
The cost of woven carbon fibre is relatively small in comparison to the cost of labour to make a musical instrument (or the cost of AAA tonewoods for that matter), so I suspect it's not for reasons of economy. As for the basses themselves, I've always liked the 'classic' Status basses, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about how they're designed or made. That's the reason we're playing electric basses in the first place.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='henry norton' post='1330147' date='Aug 6 2011, 06:10 PM']The cost of woven carbon fibre is relatively small in comparison to the cost of labour to make a musical instrument (or the cost of AAA tonewoods for that matter), so I suspect it's not for reasons of economy. As for the basses themselves, I've always liked the 'classic' Status basses, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about how they're designed or made. That's the reason we're playing electric basses in the first place.[/quote]


Actually the cost of CF has gone mental because of the new Boeing and Airbus super jumbo aircraft. They want every scrap of CF available and are happy to pay through the nose because of the huge orders they have.

Those 2 aircraft have completely changed the CF market.

[Kiwi]

I think the injection molding approach produces a better sounding result anyway. The fibres are suspended in epoxy resin around layers in a wooden core before the resin-fibre mix is injected. The core can also be tuned for rigidity prior to injection as it still plays a structural role, unlike the monocoque construction method. Fabric isn't needed, the process is more like fibre reinforced cement although the trick is to ensure the fibres are evenly distributed throughout the mold.

It's a much quicker way of producing a warmer sounding neck.

The same approach for a whole bass would result in a massively heavy instrument though. My Steiny weighs more than my Alembic

[Lfalex v1.1]

It's horses for courses, to a degree. I own a Status Streamline, Vigier Passion 5 and a good selection of wooden instruments.
I've found that all-CF basses sound a little [i]too[/i] clean and clinical- But that's when I'm practising through headphones.
Out in the real world, or even in a studio environment that translates into a really clean and "measured", controllable sound.
The real benefits in all-CF bodies (as opposed to necks) would appear to be;

[b]Durability
Stability[/b] In extreme environments
[b]Consistency[/b] In terms of the finished instrument - they ought to display little variation from one to the next
[b]Tunability[/b] Ask Rob Green to make you up a lighter/heavier Streamline, and he can do that for you- within limits.

I don't know if anyone builds a Carbon/graphite-bodied bass with a bolt-on Carbon/graphite neck. If they do, It'd be interesting to see if they varied much from the monocoque equivalents (assuming electrics and hardware to be identical)

Then there's the headed/headless aspect to consider. Ned Steinberger was definitely barking up the right tree in terms of design- chuck out absolutely everything you can. And why have a body/neck made of a stable, inert material and then have to worry about balance issues and the possibility of dead-spots caused by a headstock?

Having extolled the virtues of the compact composite bass, it's interesting to note how competent my Vigier is by comparison in terms of tone. It's arguably even better, but I reckon that's down to the pick-ups, EQ and low-impedance output. I guess it's about the whole package and the overall design concept, not just the materials or construction.

[foal30]

I mean sh*t
if you can't love a Steinberger
you are the one with a problem

[henry norton]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='1330435' date='Aug 6 2011, 10:49 PM']Actually the cost of CF has gone mental because of the new Boeing and Airbus super jumbo aircraft. They want every scrap of CF available and are happy to pay through the nose because of the huge orders they have.

Those 2 aircraft have completely changed the CF market.[/quote]
I've got a roll of 2/2 twill carbon fibre fabric which I'd be more than happy to swap for your Bongo

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1330465' date='Aug 6 2011, 11:39 PM']It's a much quicker way of producing a warmer sounding neck.[/quote]

This is the Zon and Moses method too, correct? As opposed to laying up fibre like Status, Clover, Modulus, etc etc?

Zon's method has always produced that warmer sound, and by all accounts Moses necks tend to have that tonal characteristic too. That said, I prefer the Status type sound on a fretted bass and a warmer sound on a fretless. I've got a Zoot bass coming soon, with a woven graphite neck, and ebony fretboard and a Bartolini humbucker in the Musicman position. I assume it will sound amazing as that truely is a grest combination!

[Kiwi]

I just remembered these people too:

[url="http://fibersonixx.com/"]http://fibersonixx.com/[/url]

[Chris2112]

I have long been saying that guitars are where graphite should be headed next. I wish Status would bring back their Series II shaped guitars!

[Smash]

I really love the body shape from Status but I must admit I do not like the headstock designs on their basses except T-Bass and Retro models, if they did a Stealth with a T-Bass headstock then that's what I would buy.