Rumble Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I have an Eden WT400 into one or two Aguilar 112's. In truth it's usually into one because I'm too bone-idle to take two to a gig. The problem is that with only one cab the Eden struggles for juice and starts clippin' at higher volumes. The question is do I..... 1) stop being so bone-idle and take both cabs to give a 4 Ohm rig (and hopefully a bit more Oooommpphh) 2) get a 4 Ohm cab (there's a nice Eden 210 XST on here at the mo) 3) get an amp that has more on tap into 8 Ohms ???? What d'ya reckon ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Take the second cabinet, and if it doesn't make a suitable difference, look for something else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Get a 4 ohm cab. Less to carry and you use the full power of your amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Give all your equipment to me and stop complaining. No, ok, take the second cab along with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='Muppet' post='15631' date='Jun 11 2007, 10:06 AM']Get a 4 ohm cab. Less to carry and you use the full power of your amp.[/quote] A common notion, but a flawed one. The single most limiting factor in volume achieved is the driver's displacement capability. The average 12 is displacement limited to about 50 watts in the low frequencies, anything more than that only leads to farting out at the least, blown drivers at worst. If it's not loud enough there is no replacement for displacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='15680' date='Jun 11 2007, 04:05 PM']If it's not loud enough there is no replacement for displacement.[/quote] That sounds like a killer advertising slogan. I'll buy one, whatever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) [quote name='The Funk' post='15661' date='Jun 11 2007, 03:36 PM']Give all your equipment to me and stop complaining. [/quote] I like but I not do [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='15680' date='Jun 11 2007, 04:05 PM']A common notion, but a flawed one. The single most limiting factor in volume achieved is the driver's displacement capability. The average 12 is displacement limited to about 50 watts in the low frequencies, anything more than that only leads to farting out at the least, blown drivers at worst. If it's not loud enough there is no replacement for displacement.[/quote] Unless, that is, the 4 Ohm cab is a 2x10 and not a 1x12..... Edited June 11, 2007 by Rumble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 You just know you are going to get a dozen different suggestions and one of them might be right for you! Mine is to buy a Neo equipped 6x10 (not as big and bulky as an 8x10 but more displacement than a 4x10). 30kg, 19" wide, 6 speakers... not perfect for everyone (and to some it will be an abhorrence) but it's starting to work for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernmeister Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Sorry ! But would definately say, its suggestion 1 for me. Its not as if the aggie 112's are a big & heavy cab are they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='15772' date='Jun 11 2007, 05:43 PM']You just know you are going to get a dozen different suggestions and one of them <be>might</be> be right for you! Mine is to buy a Neo equipped 6x10 (not as big and bulky as an 8x10 but more displacement than a 4x10). 30kg, 19" wide, 6 speakers... not perfect for everyone (and to some it will be an abhorrence) but it's starting to work for me![/quote] They may not not be that heavy but they are big enough to warrant buying a small van to move 'em around! [quote name='Bernmeister' post='15785' date='Jun 11 2007, 06:08 PM']Sorry ! But would definately say, its suggestion 1 for me. Its not as if the aggie 112's are a big & heavy cab are they.[/quote] No they aren't heavy, it's just that I'm lazy and have grown rather keen on the 'one trip' rig (i.e. head in one hand, cab in other and bass over shoulder). Don't know why I'm this way given that when I have used them together they've sounded great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='15680' date='Jun 11 2007, 04:05 PM']there is no replacement for displacement.[/quote] Reminds me of Carrol Shelby - there's no substitute for cubic inches The thing is with 2 cabs you have the option to use one or both. If you get one big cab you have to use it. And you aint gonna carry a 6x10 in one hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='15680' date='Jun 11 2007, 04:05 PM']A common notion, but a flawed one. The single most limiting factor in volume achieved is the driver's displacement capability. The average 12 is displacement limited to about 50 watts in the low frequencies, anything more than that only leads to [horse and cart]ing out at the least, blown drivers at worst. If it's not loud enough there is no replacement for displacement.[/quote] I take your point entirely but I wasn't suggesting a single 12" cab, merely a single 4ohm cab. The number of speakers in the cabinet is up to Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 You could get a bag with a strap for your head ..... Cab in each hand, bass over one shoulder, amp bag over t'other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 [quote name='Muppet' post='15888' date='Jun 11 2007, 03:51 PM']I take your point entirely but I wasn't suggesting a single 12" cab, merely a single 4ohm cab. The number of speakers in the cabinet is up to Rumble.[/quote] Either way it [horse and cart]s out with more than 50 watts per driver, so it can [horse and cart] out as a 4 ohm load or it can [horse and cart] out as an 8 ohm load but the stink is the same. My point is that far too many blokes shovel it against the tide going for as low a load impedance as possible thinking that 'getting all the watts out of my amp' will result in louder output, when the vast majority of the time it won't. OTOH, the vast majority of the time adding another speaker will give higher output. If you want to play loud and do it with one twelve take up guitar. If you want your bass to smack a room like Attila sacking Rome make two trips to the curb. Even better, three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 I take the point that many have made about using both cabs and to be honest I don't really have a prob with this for gigging, because they are fantastic little cabs especially when working together. However, there's no way I'm taking both to practices and, like last night, my head seems to struggle for juice when we start to pump it out a bit (and I'm not talking crazy volumes). I keep having to knock off the lower frequencies on the EQ so the output clipping light doesn't keep winking at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='Rumble' post='16082' date='Jun 12 2007, 10:32 AM']However, there's no way I'm taking both to practices and, like last night, my head seems to struggle for juice when we start to pump it out a bit (and I'm not talking crazy volumes). I keep having to knock off the lower frequencies on the EQ so the output clipping light doesn't keep winking at me.[/quote] What are your EQ (and particularly the enhancer) settings? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='alexclaber' post='16086' date='Jun 12 2007, 10:43 AM']What are your EQ (and particularly the enhancer) settings? Alex[/quote] They're all flat to begin with. If anything I might knock a little of the treble off. The enhancer's around the 1 o'clock position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='Rumble' post='16094' date='Jun 12 2007, 10:55 AM']They're all flat to begin with. If anything I might knock a little of the treble off. The enhancer's around the 1 o'clock position.[/quote] There's your problem, you're scooping a whole load of critical low mids and placing more demands on the lows and highs where the cabinet performs least well. So called 'enhance' knobs are best kept for playing solo - a dash of them (up to 9 or 10 o'clock) can work in a band if you have a bass with strong mids but more than that and you will get lost unless you have an amp with huge power in the lows. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='alexclaber' post='16099' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:05 AM']There's your problem, you're scooping a whole load of critical low mids and placing more demands on the lows and highs where the cabinet performs least well. So called 'enhance' knobs are best kept for playing solo - a dash of them (up to 9 or 10 o'clock) can work in a band if you have a bass with strong mids but more than that and you will get lost unless you have an amp with huge power in the lows. Alex[/quote] So should I roll the enhancer back to 9 o'clock and then add some upper mids on via the main EQ to help me cut through a bit better? BTW, I play a Lakland JO5 which, being a jazz bass, has a natural mid scoop to it. Would this have anything to do with it? I'm such a novice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 If I were you I'd turn the enhancer off and leave the EQ flat. I tend to use both pickups mixed equally when I deliberately want to sit further back in the mix due to reduced midrange, the rest of the time I solo one pickup or the other. Try to only tweak your EQ in the context of the band - and before tweaking your EQ see if changing how/where you're plucking or the pickup blend will get you the sound you need. Also, if you're just using one cab remember to either raise it a couple of feet from the ground (not too far or you'll lose boundary reinforcement) and/or tilt it upwards towards your ears (but not so upwards that it's firing at the ceiling - you need the rest of the band to hear it too). This is because bass speakers get very directional once you get into the high mids and treble - the sound comes out as a narrow beam, so if it's not pointed at you you won't hear it! Alex P.S. And definitely take both cabs to gigs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Thanks Alex, I'll try doing what you suggest. I just have a fear that if I continue to push the amp so hard it's going to bum out on me one day, which would not be good given that I don't have a backup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='Rumble' post='16362' date='Jun 12 2007, 05:29 PM']Thanks Alex, I'll try doing what you suggest. I just have a fear that if I continue to push the amp so hard it's going to bum out on me one day, which would not be good given that I don't have a backup![/quote] Actually you're more likely to knacker the amp clipping it constantly at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms. But either way you should be fine if you're sensible. Eden amps are pretty well designed on the durability front. I just wish they (and SWR) would name the 'enhance' knob more suitably - like 'lose all your headroom' or 'get lost in the mix' or 'all your punch gone'... Nice bass btw - I tried OBBM's JO5 and was very impressed - and not something that needs its tone messing with at all! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Thanks for all your advice. Really useful. Re the bass, it is fantastic and I love it. I've put in a j-retro to give me just a bit more flexibility when I need it, but in the main it stays in passive mode. The j-retro would be even better if it had a pickup blend in P mode. It also looks the dogs whatsits! The only downer (and I don't know if OBBM's is the same) is the weight. At 12Ibs it's a bit on the hefty side. My left shoulder has been known to ache at the end of a set! With that in mind, I'd love a 4 string version of this bass. I'm sure it's one of the best J basses out there. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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