essexbasscat Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 [quote name='BigRedX' post='1339112' date='Aug 13 2011, 09:22 PM']Actually if done well it can be hugely effective. With Dick Venom we do this quite a lot especially if the song is in E, I'll play some of the bassline an octave higher in the guitar range range rather than where you would expect it to be so both instruments are playing in unison. With the right guitar and bass sounds and with sufficient practice to get it tight (we spend a lot of time playing the riffs at three quarter speed to ensure that our timing is completely spot on and then gradually speed back up to the "proper" tempo). To pull it off requires musical discipline, but that's a skill I tend to value and expect the other that I play with to also value.[/quote] If the song is arranged for the bass to play in unison with another instrument it can sound really cool. Quo made a career from it. What sent me to the dark side was a.n. other playing space invaders with all the sensitivity of a herd of rhino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benplaysbass Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I've had this problem in previous bands, but the one I'm in now is made up of old git's who really should be at home wearing slippers and sucking wurthers, they must be almost 40yrs older than me. But on the other hand they all know what they are doing, stop when they should and so on. The keyboardist is bloody amazing and is just getting out of the habbit of playing the bassline with his left hand as he had been doing the job of bass player before I joined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) You know re-reading through this thread this morning the thing that strikes me is that a lot of people here seemingly put up with a lot of very poor musicians as band members. It appears that their deficiency isn't necessarily in technical ability, but in all the other skill that go to making a good band - playing what is appropriate for the song and listening to what the other musicians are doing. Unless the band is named after one member in particular (a la Jimi Hendrix Experience) then you should work together as a unit listening to what the other players are doing and supporting them musically always keeping in mind that the song is king. Musicians who don't listen to the other musicians, can't learn their parts properly and can't effectively play as a member of a band while remembering that their primary job is to make the song sound as good as possible need to wise up or they have no business being in a band. Maybe they are best off alone in their bedrooms playing along to record for the benefit of a YouTube audience. That way they can be safely ignored. Shame on them for being dull and insensitive musicians, but also shame on those of you who continue to let them get away with it. Edited August 14, 2011 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='BigRedX' post='1339352' date='Aug 14 2011, 09:41 AM']You know re-reading through this thread this morning the thing that strikes me is that a lot of people here seemingly put up with a lot of very poor musicians as band members. It appears that their deficiency isn't necessarily in technical ability, but in all the other skill that go to making a good band - playing what is appropriate for the song and listening to what the other musicians are doing. Unless the band is named after one member in particular (a la Jimi Hendrix Experience) then you should work together as a unit listening to what the other players are doing and supporting them musically always keeping in mind that the song is king. Musicians who don't listen to the other musicians, can't learn their parts properly and can't effectively play as a member of a band while remembering that their primary job is to make the song sound as good as possible need to wise up or they have no business being in a band. Maybe they are best off alone in their bedrooms playing along to record for the benefit of a YouTube audience. That way they can be safely ignored. Shame on them for being dull and insensitive musicians, but also shame on those of you who continue to let them get away with it.[/quote] I agree.. In my case, this is a very recent thing (maybe new girlfriend thing..which is UNEXCUSEABLE, anyway. but the reason I am annoyed about it is that he knows all this full well. His excuse isn't because he doesn't have the experience, and he can be the epitome of taste, plus a very fair player, but if it carries on, he will have to leave. At the next band meet, it will come up for sure. I don't agree at all with shutting down a song at a gig or replying like for like...but I'd be tempted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' post='1339416' date='Aug 14 2011, 10:55 AM']I agree.. In my case, this is a very recent thing (maybe new girlfriend thing..which is UNEXCUSEABLE, anyway. but the reason I am annoyed about it is that he knows all this full well. His excuse isn't because he doesn't have the experience, and he can be the epitome of taste, plus a very fair player, but if it carries on, he will have to leave. At the next band meet, it will come up for sure. I don't agree at all with shutting down a song at a gig or replying like for like...but I'd be tempted. [/quote] I agree it's less than professional to snatch someone else's line in retaliation, I'm certainly not proud of it. But the other night really was the last straw, as the point had came up in conversation many, many times before. I'm not in a position to dictate who plays in the band, so the choices are a bit limited while avoiding drastic measures. Edited August 14, 2011 by essexbasscat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='essexbasscat' post='1339078' date='Aug 13 2011, 08:28 PM']That's what I did last night. The keyboard player mimicked my bassline in Alright Now. So I stole his keyboard line in the instrumental section of Whiter Shade of Pale. Got some strange looks, but it sure made the point.[/quote] I suppose this is the benefit of transcribing parts for all instruments to bass, not just transcribing other basslines. That means you can play them live, in situations like this, where necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1339738' date='Aug 14 2011, 04:36 PM']I suppose this is the benefit of transcribing parts for all instruments to bass, not just transcribing other basslines. That means you can play them live, in situations like this, where necessary.[/quote] It was busked on the spot ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 [quote name='essexbasscat' post='1339742' date='Aug 14 2011, 04:39 PM']It was busked on the spot ! [/quote] The benefits of learning melodies and solos aren't to further yourself as a bass player, but in fact to wind other members of the band up in the case that they trivialise your position in the band by playing your parts! I agree with what BigRedX had to say. But equally it can be hard to find musicians to work with who you can trust implicitly to be aware of not intruding on what each other are playing in the band, so sometimes you've got to be the one who takes the matter into your own hands and explain to the offender that they're overplaying. If they continue to do it, then replace him or leave. There are many musicians out there that are happy to not perform that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='essexbasscat' post='1339426' date='Aug 14 2011, 11:04 AM']I'm not in a position to dictate who plays in the band, so the choices are a bit limited while avoiding drastic measures.[/quote] In that case I would have a quiet word with who ever is in charge of the band and explain to them why you're unhappy, and what IYO needs to be done about it. I'm a musician of fairly average technical ability, pretty fixed ideas of what sorts of music I want to play and despite living in a city that doesn't really have a massively happening musical scene I've not had any problems over the past 30 or so years with finding sympathetic musicians and bands to play with. In fact I've only ever been in one band that had a problem member from a musical PoV. In this instance he'd been fine during rehearsals, but come our first gig he was too loud and wouldn't turn down, played completely different guitar parts to the ones we'd rehearsed and was a general ass. We had a second gig the following night, so the percussionist and myself (who had started the band and wrote all the songs) took him aside before we played and explained that we'd really like it if he played what we'd rehearsed at a sensible volume so the other instruments could be heard too. Unfortunately that seem to be a challenge to him to be even louder, so afterwards we told him that his presence would not be required at next week's rehearsal. And you know what? I never saw him playing in another band (and I used to go and see a lot of local bands at that time) despite the fact that he had both decent gear and technical ability - two things that would at least get you to a rehearsal or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) edit due to pointless post. Edited August 15, 2011 by Monckyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='essexbasscat' post='1338546' date='Aug 13 2011, 10:47 AM']What do you think would happen if the bass player started copying everone else's lines ? [/quote] I do it sometimes in rehearsal because our lead guitarist thinks its funny to do it to me at other times..... things like Molly Chambers (Kings of Leon) On the second verse the guitar plays a little riff on the octave after each line. It sounds quite cool with the bass actually! And it came in handy when we had a gig where he couldn't make it so I covered him and we just did a limited set that the rhythm could solo on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 This reminds me of an old thread where the guitarist asks to have a go on your bass, and promptly picks it up and starts widdling a solo up the neck, gets bored and hands it back to you, as he has no idea how to play the bass guitar properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Fortunately not been much of a problem for me in previous bands even though a couple of them had 2 guitarists, they tended to stick to what was required for the song. It won't be a problem in the current venture as there's only 3 of us, if the guitarist starts playing my bits half the song will mysteriously disappear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commando Jack Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hasn't really happened with bass, but happened with vocals a couple of times funnily enough. Had all the excuses: I couldn't reach the harmony line so I just doubled you, I didn't know what else to do etc... my personal favourite: I thought you could use a bit of help in that bit... They sure don't like it when you stop playing or singing and leave them hanging on their own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Maybe its just me, but I don't really give a toss about what the other guys play, so long as it makes the band sound good. If someone wants to double "my" line then if it sounds cool, go ahead. If it sounds crap, then we have issues, but I don't need a moment of personal glory to enjoy a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 [quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1340769' date='Aug 15 2011, 03:29 PM']Maybe its just me, but I don't really give a toss about what the other guys play, so long as it makes the band sound good. If someone wants to double "my" line then if it sounds cool, go ahead. If it sounds crap, then we have issues, but I don't need a moment of personal glory to enjoy a gig.[/quote] +1 very much so Always used to double up for hey joe, working up to harmony lines on the bass part, it was a bit cool actually. As long as you can play in time/tune this should not be a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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