MarkBass and Stingray owners - what settings?

[Linus27]

I have a Stingray 2EQ and a MarkBass CMD112H combo which I believe is a Little Mark head. Generally, it sounds very good but I am suffering a little with the bass being too bassy or the treble being too clanky. Finding a happy medium does seem to be a bit of a struggle at times, especially trying to balance the bass and treble dials on the Stingray. Could those who use a Stingray and a MarkBass head/combo care to share their settings, on the amp head as well as on the Stingray.

Thank you.

[chrismuzz]

I've not used a Ray for a while, but I'd start with a flat EQ and adjust the tone using the VLE and VPF filters. I only really touch the EQ section for subtle alterations necessary when playing in different rooms

[51m0n]

I know this is a tad tedious, and I dont want ot teach granny to suck eggs, but it surely is as dependant on the room, the strings (age, brand etc) and playing style as much as the cab, the tweeter attenuator setting etc etc.

Not to mention the volume at which they are playing, which will have a huge effect on your perception of the sound, and almost certainly be different between bands/players/environments (Fletcher-Munsen curves and all that).

So just some settings that have worked for someone else may be a million miles away from what you need.

I suggest you try the following:-

Set the bass and amp eq and filters all flat.

Set the gain so the blue light never quite comes on.

Set the master so that the bass (however nasal it seems compared to your usual sound) is at the right level in the mix.

Cut the areas you dont like first rather than boost what you do like, try and stay on the amp eq as much as you can, mainly because its not subject to the vagiaries of battery power supply, but also because you want to use this to get your baseline tone, and the less you use the bass eq the more you have left to tweak at that end during a gig.

Reset the gain control and then main volume as you make any change.

Rules of thumb:-

If you are struggling with clacky top end, roll up the VLE and see if that tames it, if you dont like that, try dipping te HF level on the eq instead, the two are very different in how they work.

If you use the VPF you will very quickly (ie above 9 O'clock IME) get into too much sub, too much clacky top, so back that right off if you suffer in those areas!

If you are struggling with boom then the low eq on the MB heads in quesiton is down at 40Hz, ie right down low.

However a lot of what is perceived as boom can be up around 100Hz, so always take a moment to drop that a tad (ie the lo mid) instead and see if that fits the problem area better.

With practice you can get the whole process down to about 2 minutes. Be sure to listen with your ears and not your eyes, it doesnt matter where the knobs end up, its the resultant sound that counts!

More often than not if you go through this procedure in a full band mix you will end up using a lot less eq than normal and get a far better sound (IME).

One other point, if you use the stingray eq to boost somewhere during a gig, watch that clip light on the amp!

Edited August 15, 2011 by 51m0n

[Linus27]

51m0n, thanks that was certainly not tedious but very helpful. One point that I find interesting is the part about dropping the low mid to reduce the boom. I find I have to do this with pretty much all basses on my MarkBass to get a tone I am happy with. My ears really do not like this dial set to flat.

The other point is you say set the EQ on the Stingray flat. However, what is flat on a 2EQ Ray as it just has a tone and bass dial and no indent like a 3EQ Ray has? Is flat on a 2EQ Ray with both dial turned half way?

[Musicman20]

With my Rays, to get less clank, I leave the bass/mids as they are, and drop the treble.

Just a smidge.

Flats also help to get less clank, and smooths the Ray out.

With the amp, the only problem with the LM2/3 is the low mid is set above the boomy area, but I think leaving the amp flat apart from a smidge of bass off is your best bet.

Also, tame it with the VLE...again just a little.

I know we all see Rays as very aggressive, but you can smooth them out.

Hope this helps!

[Linus27]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1340444' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:07 AM']With my Rays, to get less clank, I leave the bass/mids as they are, and drop the treble.[/quote]

Yes but on a 2EQ what is leaving it as they are in terms of settings? The 2EQ only has a treble and bass dial so where do you set them on your 2EQ?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1340464' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:17 AM']Yes but on a 2EQ what is leaving it as they are in terms of settings? The 2EQ only has a treble and bass dial so where do you set them on your 2EQ?[/quote]


IIRC correctly.... bass control on a MM 2 band is ALL boost....so flat would be all the way off.

Treble is +-12bd..I think.

[Musicman20]

I dont have a 2EQ now unfortunately. It developed a buzzing and I needed a bass so they swapped it for a new 3EQ same colour, BUT, it has lovely birdseye/flame in the neck, so Im happy. It is a belter if im honest.

I might get another 2 EQ, but at the moment I dont really need it.

The 2EQ is apparently boost/cut, Ed F mentions this on the Classic review. Id say half way ish is flat, so basically only roll the treble on 1/3.

[Linus27]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1340481' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:22 AM']IIRC correctly.... bass control on a MM 2 band is ALL boost....so flat would be all the way off.

Treble is +-12bd..I think.[/quote]

Ah cool, thank you, now this I did not know. Thats a big starting point for me tonight then. When I did get the 2EQ Ray, at first I used the dials like a Precision and wound then both up to full. Now I know why the bass was coming through the roof and it sounded subsonic

[Linus27]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1340494' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:28 AM']The 2EQ is apparently boost/cut, Ed F mentions this on the Classic review. Id say half way ish is flat, so basically only roll the treble on 1/3.[/quote]

Gareth, you sure about that? Been doing some reading and those on TalkBass seem to think that its boost only. JTUK also seems to think its boost only. Is the classic different to a standard 2EQ perhaps?

[51m0n]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1340433' date='Aug 15 2011, 10:59 AM']51m0n, thanks that was certainly not tedious but very helpful. One point that I find interesting is the part about dropping the low mid to reduce the boom. I find I have to do this with pretty much all basses on my MarkBass to get a tone I am happy with. My ears really do not like this dial set to flat.

The other point is you say set the EQ on the Stingray flat. However, what is flat on a 2EQ Ray as it just has a tone and bass dial and no indent like a 3EQ Ray has? Is flat on a 2EQ Ray with both dial turned half way?[/quote]


Low Mid, mate, its the hardest to get 'right'.

Too little and you have no warmth, too much (by even a dB) and you are getting properly muddy. I'm supoer finicky about this area too, it has to be exactly right!

THing is when you have 2 different eq cicuits they can make some pretty complex curves, and you can get reinforcement in unexpected ares as a result, so the mud can come on really fast (as can the clank).

Definitely figure out where 0 is on the ray, see if you can go from there, if it is boost only then turning it off is going to leave you feeling all empty inside for a while, dont worry, the amps eq is more than powerful enough to work around that, dont feel the urge to go straight back to halfway on both.

If it is a boost only circuit then I think that bass & treble set at half with some VPF would be a real thudding clankfest with no discernable pitch very quickly in a mix!

<Yoda>Powerful is the eq you use......</Yoda>

[51m0n]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1340444' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:07 AM']With the amp, the only problem with the LM2/3 is the low mid is set above the boomy area, but I think leaving the amp flat apart from a smidge of bass off is your best bet.[/quote]

This is why I went for an sa450, sweepable mids are vital for me to be able to get the eq right, and I dont care if the amp was twice the size again (though not the weight!) I'd still go for it over the LMII/III as a result.

From the MB site though:-

EQUALIZATION

LOW
center frequency: 40 Hz; level: ±16 dB
LOW MID
center frequency: 360 Hz, level: ±16 dB
HIGH MID
center frequency: 800 Hz, level: ±16 dB
HIGH
center frequency: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB
VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter)
center frequency 380 Hz (cut)
VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator)
frequency range 250 Hz-20 kHz (cut)

Now 360Hz may seem awfully high for boom, but it is mud city central, and if you cut the mud you can live with more bass (acoustics permitting)....

Edited August 15, 2011 by 51m0n

[Linus27]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1340616' date='Aug 15 2011, 01:13 PM']Low Mid, mate, its the hardest to get 'right'.

Definitely figure out where 0 is on the ray, see if you can go from there, if it is boost only then turning it off is going to leave you feeling all empty inside for a while, dont worry, the amps eq is more than powerful enough to work around that, dont feel the urge to go straight back to halfway on both.

If it is a boost only circuit then I think that bass & treble set at half with some VPF would be a real thudding clankfest with no discernable pitch very quickly in a mix!

<Yoda>Powerful is the eq you use......</Yoda>[/quote]

This is exactly what I have noticed when using the Bass and Treble dials on the Ray. It's been really big and muddy and the top end very clanky with not much else. As a general rule, I like to run most things flat so if I can run the Ray flat then thats great for me as I can hopefully just make minor adjustments on the amp which I suspect will be turning the Low Mid's to 10 O Clock. So its now a case of finding out where flat is on the 2EQ Ray

Edited August 15, 2011 by Linus27

[JTUK]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1340565' date='Aug 15 2011, 12:26 PM']Gareth, you sure about that? Been doing some reading and those on TalkBass seem to think that its boost only. JTUK also seems to think its boost only. Is the classic different to a standard 2EQ perhaps?[/quote]


My old pre EB MM ( early 80's ) was boost only on the bass.
Many other boxes are bass boost only..but other tones have cut as well.

This isn't something made clear by makers as it seems limiting but that is the way most things are with bass control, IME.
But, anyway, you will still have a range of 12-15bd on the bass dial..which means if anywhere near full-on, is an awful LOT of bass.

I could never use the extremes of an MM pre amp which is why I took it out on mine...just WAY too powerful and overbearing for me.

Assume for this argument that bass is boost only.. turn the knob back to off..and then work on the MB filters.
Add bass boost a tad to taste.

All these sweeps seem to be are optimum EQs bands so there can be a lot of cross-over with active pre's onboard with mid sweeps..and
VPE's timbre/enhance or whatever certain makers want to call it

Because the MM pre was so powerful in the bass region... this complicates the upper ranges which is way some like the simplicity of 2-band over 3, IMO.

Edited August 15, 2011 by JTUK

[Linus27]

So, I plugged the Stingray into the MB combo and turned the bass and treble dials to off or flat. I then set all the EQ on the MB combo to flat and I must say, it sounded horrible. Dull, muddy, flt, lifeless and really middy or nasaly as I call it The first thing I did was dial the Mid Low down to about 10 O Clock and this really helped but it still sounded dull and flat. So I dialed about 1/5 of treble on the Stingray dial and it added a bit of sparkle. I continued to try different settings on the combo and I finally settled with the following,

MB Combo

Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
Mid Low: 10 o' Clock
Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
VLE Filter: OFF
VPF Filter: 2 o' Clock

Stingray

Volume: Full
Treble: 1/5th on
Bass: Off (FLAT)

This gave me a smooth warm sound with a bit of sparkle. Its still not perfect and lacks a bit of character and energy but its a start I guess.

What I did notice is that when I plugged my Jazz in with these settings but turned the VPF Filter down to around 11 o'Clock then it sounded totally amazing. Lots of punch and growl. Very annoying as I am trying to force myself to use the Stingray rather than the Jazz but with the Jazz sounding this good, its making it very hard to play the Stingray

[stingrayPete1977]

I find the 2 EQ harder to get to the sweet spot than the 3's but nicer when you do. The treble is boost and cut, bass boost only. I use bass full on with all my Rays and adjust the treble to suit, mids just a tad of boost on the 3's.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1341031' date='Aug 15 2011, 07:23 PM']So, I plugged the Stingray into the MB combo and turned the bass and treble dials to off or flat. I then set all the EQ on the MB combo to flat and I must say, it sounded horrible. Dull, muddy, flt, lifeless and really middy or nasaly as I call it The first thing I did was dial the Mid Low down to about 10 O Clock and this really helped but it still sounded dull and flat. So I dialed about 1/5 of treble on the Stingray dial and it added a bit of sparkle. I continued to try different settings on the combo and I finally settled with the following,

MB Combo

Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
Mid Low: 10 o' Clock
Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT)
VLE Filter: OFF
VPF Filter: 2 o' Clock

Stingray

Volume: Full
Treble: 1/5th on
Bass: Off (FLAT)

This gave me a smooth warm sound with a bit of sparkle. Its still not perfect and lacks a bit of character and energy but its a start I guess.

What I did notice is that when I plugged my Jazz in with these settings but turned the VPF Filter down to around 11 o'Clock then it sounded totally amazing. Lots of punch and growl. Very annoying as I am trying to force myself to use the Stingray rather than the Jazz but with the Jazz sounding this good, its making it very hard to play the Stingray [/quote]

Was this in a mix at war volume, or just at home in tthe practice room at sane levels?

All that annoying honk will translate to presence in a mix you see. Or rather a lot of it will!

Stingrays can be tricky, I've always found a decent jazz with new strings a doddle to get to sound nice.

You can do worse than listen to some Bernard and hear how he got Stingrays to be fat and punchy as hell, thats where they really sound the beans for me. Still cant play one though - too heavy and the pickup is the wrong place after all the years spent playing basses with a jazz pup config.

Keep fiddling about, a little upper mid may be just the ticket in a mix to get some of that clarity back, careful though!

[51m0n]

VPF at 2 O'clock!!!

Holy cow thats insane!

[Beedster]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1341031' date='Aug 15 2011, 07:23 PM']This gave me a smooth warm sound with a bit of sparkle. Its still not perfect and lacks a bit of character and energy but its a start I guess.

What I did notice is that when I plugged my Jazz in with these settings but turned the VPF Filter down to around 11 o'Clock then it sounded totally amazing. Lots of punch and growl. Very annoying as I am trying to force myself to use the Stingray rather than the Jazz but with the Jazz sounding this good, its making it very hard to play the Stingray [/quote]

Without doubt the worst combination of bass and amp I've ever owned was Stingray (several, both 2 and 3eq) and Markbass (several, combos and head/cab). I've heard the same about Rics and Markbass. Not sure it's much help, but thought I'd mention it

[Linus27]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1341124' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:36 PM']Was this in a mix at war volume, or just at home in tthe practice room at sane levels?

All that annoying honk will translate to presence in a mix you see. Or rather a lot of it will!

Stingrays can be tricky, I've always found a decent jazz with new strings a doddle to get to sound nice.

You can do worse than listen to some Bernard and hear how he got Stingrays to be fat and punchy as hell, thats where they really sound the beans for me. Still cant play one though - too heavy and the pickup is the wrong place after all the years spent playing basses with a jazz pup config.

Keep fiddling about, a little upper mid may be just the ticket in a mix to get some of that clarity back, careful though![/quote]

At first it was at home solo. However, I then played in the mix and it all turned on its head. The Ray cut through to the front of the mix like a dream with each note cutting through to the front. The Jazz on the other hand which sounded better solo was sitting in the middle totally just there and not really cutting through at all. It was quite shocking the difference. I then turned the VPF down to 12 O clock for the Ray and boosted the treble a little more on the dial on the Ray and it sounded better still. I also dropped the Bass (Low) on the MB combo to 11 O'Clock as the E string was string a bit boomy and bass heavy. Again, its still not perfect but getting there.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Linus27

[Linus27]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1341126' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:37 PM']VPF at 2 O'clock!!!

Holy cow thats insane![/quote]

Oh, was that bad See my post above as I did manage to turn it down to 12 o'Clock and boost the treble on the bass itself. Oh and I also turned the bass on the MB combo down to 11 o'Clock as it was still boomy on the E string a bit.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Linus27

[Linus27]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1341068' date='Aug 15 2011, 07:53 PM']I find the 2 EQ harder to get to the sweet spot than the 3's but nicer when you do. The treble is boost and cut, bass boost only. I use bass full on with all my Rays and adjust the treble to suit, mids just a tad of boost on the 3's.[/quote]

Wow, bass on full on the Ray. When I try that my whole house shake. We have a big shelf in the kitchen with pots and pans on and they all started to rattle when I tried the bass on full

[Linus27]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1341132' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:43 PM']Without doubt the worst combination of bass and amp I've ever owned was Stingray (several, both 2 and 3eq) and Markbass (several, combos and head/cab). I've heard the same about Rics and Markbass. Not sure it's much help, but thought I'd mention it [/quote]

Thats interesting as it is generally considered that a MB and Stingray is a match made in heaven

[Beedster]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1341186' date='Aug 15 2011, 09:10 PM']Thats interesting as it is generally considered that a MB and Stingray is a match made in heaven [/quote]

Guess it depends what you want from it, but it didn't work for me with either a LM2 or R500. Great for slap for sure (but I don't use slap in bands), but I could never get any real grunt. I switched to Mesa and bingo

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Linus27' post='1341183' date='Aug 15 2011, 09:09 PM']Wow, bass on full on the Ray. When I try that my whole house shake. We have a big shelf in the kitchen with pots and pans on and they all started to rattle when I tried the bass on full [/quote]
Yep , You should hear the EBS pre amp in my jazz, It's twice as huge! Just use less bass on the amp. You will find the majority of long-term ray players on bc use the controls like that especially on the 2 EQ, general opinions bass on full and use the treble pot like a tone pot.