Power Loss

[Dogsbreath]

I’ve been happily playing bass for a number of years using a Peavey TNT 115 combo with a Black Widow speaker. I bought it second hand so never knew the full spec. I think it’s 150w. Frankly it’s always been loud enough for the venues I play. I fancied a change though and recently bought myself an Ashdown Mag 300 Evo ii head and an Ashdown 410 deep cab – 8 ohms. Here’s the thing – the Peavey combo seems much MUCH louder than the new rig and I can’t see any good reason why. Any ideas would be appreciated. I’m considering adding a second Ashdown 115 cab which I guess will give me a bit more Umph but I felt that the 300w Ashdown head should be leaving the Peavey for dead. Confused.

[Mr. Foxen]

Speaker efficiency and voicing. The Peavey is probably much middlier. If you can rig it, compare the amp into the other speaker section.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1343791' date='Aug 17 2011, 05:45 PM']Speaker efficiency and voicing.[/quote]Mainly the voicing, I'd suspect. Most combos have high Q drivers in cabs that are technically too small, which results in no true deep lows but an exaggerated humped midbass response. That makes them sound louder than cabs with lower/flatter response. The difference in what a 300w amp and 150w amp can produce is at best only 3dB, the midbass hump of a combo can be 6dB, easily making up for the power difference and more.

[Musky]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1343791' date='Aug 17 2011, 10:45 PM']Speaker efficiency and voicing. The Peavey is probably much middlier. If you can rig it, compare the amp into the other speaker section.[/quote]
^ This.

Plus if the TNT is 150w it's putting that out into it's internal speaker (4 ohms). The Ashdown is going to be knocking out about 200w into the 8 ohm 410, so the extra wattage is going to be completely inaudible. So it's mostly likely down to the speakers used.

[ficelles]

The power rating really isn't that much higher (3dB) but the 410 should theoretically give you more SPL. Trouble is Ashdown rigs just don't seem to move as much air as other rigs of similar or even lower power. Same goes for GK imho. Don't remember the TNT as having much of a mid hump... btw they are astoundingly good value s/h, I'm thinking of picking one up and leaving it in the shed as an emergency backup...

ficelles

Edited August 17, 2011 by ficelles

[Dogsbreath]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1343791' date='Aug 17 2011, 10:45 PM']Speaker efficiency and voicing. The Peavey is probably much middlier. If you can rig it, compare the amp into the other speaker section.[/quote]
Thanks all for your technical input. I don't normally have to think about how it works - Ijust like to make a lot of noise!

Out of interest will the addition of the second cab give me any more volume or will the output simply be shared between the two cabs?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Dogsbreath

[Musky]

[quote name='Dogsbreath' post='1343843' date='Aug 17 2011, 11:32 PM']Thanks all for your technical input. I don't normally have to think about how it works - Ijust like to make a lot of noise!

Out of interest will the addition of the second cab give me any more volume or will the output simply be shared between the two cabs?[/quote]
If you add a second identical cab (i.e. another Ashdown 410) the extra speaker area alone will give you another 3dB. Add to that the extra 100w or so halving the impedance will give you, and you're looking at about 5dB more volume.

The power will be shared by the two cabs, but you'll still end up with more power and be pushing each cab less hard.

[url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage"]http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage[/url]

Edited August 17, 2011 by Musky

[Dogsbreath]

[quote name='Musky' post='1343860' date='Aug 17 2011, 11:49 PM']If you add a second identical cab (i.e. another Ashdown 410) the extra speaker area alone will give you another 3dB. Add to that the extra 100w or so halving the impedance will give you, and you're looking at about 5dB more volume.

The power will be shared by the two cabs, but you'll still end up with more power and be pushing each cab less hard.

[url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage"]http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage[/url][/quote]

Thanks - best start searching for the 15" cab!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Dogsbreath' post='1344149' date='Aug 18 2011, 10:55 AM']Thanks - best start searching for the 15" cab![/quote]

If you like the sound of the 4x10 one, get another the same, mixing up causes problems.

[Dogsbreath]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1344213' date='Aug 18 2011, 11:56 AM']If you like the sound of the 4x10 one, get another the same, mixing up causes problems.[/quote] Hi - thanks for the continued input - I appreciate it.

I was intending to get another ashdown cab, just the 1 x 15 is that likely to cause a problem? I think another 4 x 10 might be overkill so maybe I should go for an ashdown 2 x 10 - still problematic? If you think I should just get a matching 410 then please let me know.

[alexclaber]

As the Peavey is louder, if you also prefer the tone of then why not just go back to it?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Dogsbreath' post='1344236' date='Aug 18 2011, 12:14 PM']Hi - thanks for the continued input - I appreciate it.

I was intending to get another ashdown cab, just the 1 x 15 is that likely to cause a problem? I think another 4 x 10 might be overkill so maybe I should go for an ashdown 2 x 10 - still problematic? If you think I should just get a matching 410 then please let me know.[/quote]

It is having different speakers (not just size, just different ones) that is the problem, they don't match each other across the board and cancel out in certain positions and frequencies (so it sounds different depending where you are in the room). If you want to do the 4x10 + 2x10, aim for a 16 ohm 2x10 to go with a 8ohm 4x10 (with the same speakers in it), so each speaker gets the same power, if they are both 8 ohm, the 2x10 will be taking twice as much power per speaker.

[Dogsbreath]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1344239' date='Aug 18 2011, 12:18 PM']As the Peavey is louder, if you also prefer the tone of then why not just go back to it?[/quote]
That would of course be an easy option, it would also be admitting defeat! The TNT will be remaining as a backup though!