Tube head.. what cab?

[MarkNS4]

Hey there

Im sure this topic has been brought up before but ill ask anyway


i Have a mesa 1200watt 4x12 cab and im looking at gettin a 300watt tube head

im currently using a 1200watt solid state head



so my question is, will the 300watt tube head be enough power for my cab ?



thanks

[dannybuoy]

Of course! 1200W is the rated max power your cab can handle before it supposedly blows up, although you could probably still make it fart out with half that amount of power. A 200W valve amp will be LOUD through that and you won't have to worry too much about blowing a speaker.

[MarkNS4]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1344940' date='Aug 18 2011, 10:35 PM']Of course! 1200W is the rated max power your cab can handle before it supposedly blows up, although you could probably still make it fart out with half that amount of power. A 200W valve amp will be LOUD through that and you won't have to worry too much about blowing a speaker.[/quote]


yeah but isnt the 1200watt solid state rating? because tubes and solid state are rated different

hence the query, just wondering if the 300watt tube will be as loud and powerfull as my 1200watt solid state

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='MarkNS4' post='1344945' date='Aug 18 2011, 10:39 PM']yeah but isnt the 1200watt solid state rating? because tubes and solid state are rated different

hence the query, just wondering if the 300watt tube will be as loud and powerfull as my 1200watt solid state[/quote]

All Watts are Watts, a measure of power. All Amps are rated with the same in the power section regardless if it's solid state or tube

The whole "Tube" watts thing is just it's mostly stated that A 300W all Tube amp will be louder than a 300W solid state amp but they are kicking out the same amount of power just not the same Volume

Loud and Powerful aren't the same thing, Wattage rating is a guide line more or less, not a true direct correlation

The guy from System of a Down has a 1000W All tube Ashdown custom head and thats stadium loud!

Edited August 18, 2011 by AttitudeCastle

[dannybuoy]

A 200W valve amp can put out 200W of clean tone, but crank it a bit more and you can get a lot more volume with a pleasing overdriven sound. Solid state amps don't sound too good when pushed past their limit, hence why some talk about 'valve' watts. But if you can't get enough volume out of a 200W valve rig and 4x12, there must be something wrong! any venue likely to need that much volume will have PA reinforcement that will reduce your amp to a mere on-stage monitor.

Edited August 18, 2011 by dannybuoy

[MarkNS4]

so a 1200 watt cab could take 1000watt tube head?

but in saying that tubes are louder, surely that means more speaker excursion, which would in turn destroy the speakers

because with my 1200 watt solidsate, the speakers are defo being pushed, and if a tube head is louder i seriously dont think 1200 watt cab could take anywhere near that watt in tube form

Edited August 19, 2011 by MarkNS4

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='MarkNS4' post='1345031' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:38 AM']so a 1200 watt cab could take 1000watt tube head?

but in saying that tubes are louder, surely that means more speaker excursion, which would in turn destroy the speakers

because with my 1200 watt solidsate, the speakers are defo being pushed, and if a tube head is louder i seriously dont think 1200 watt cab could take anywhere near that watt in tube form[/quote]

Its not 1200 Watts "Solidstate" as it were, its just 1200W All amps, no matter what time, valve, solid states etc put out Watts which is a rating of power, and the cabs are rated with a Wattage rating to prevent "over powering" the cab and by that i mean actual Power, rated in Watts. (As in electrical energy)

That rating for the cab means the thermal coils will take approximately 1200 before overheating

Quick edit: [url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage"]http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:amps:impedance_and_wattage[/url] very nicely written article on the Basschat Wiki might explain a little better than I, but my explination is below

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/mythbusters1.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...ythbusters1.htm[/url]

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-power-handling.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...er-handling.htm[/url]

Should explain everything you need to know!

Edited August 19, 2011 by AttitudeCastle

[longtimefred]

put it this way, i used to own a 400watt all valve Marshall VBA400 and that had the most horsepower i have ever used and it was thunderously loud! I changed it for a 200watt valve head and it is still plenty plenty loud enough. And i have played some serious loud heavy rock n metal stuff. Cant see many people needing more than a 200watt valve head unless you are playing some seriously large venues. + i have never had a cab at over 500watt raiting and have never blown a speaker with my valve heads.

[EdwardHimself]

It'll be plenty loud enough for anything you need. Tube amps are LOUD. As for blowing up speakers, there is a simple method to avoid it; don't turn your amp up too loud. Speakers can either be blown by having too much power shoved through them, or by amps that are not as powerful as the power rating of the cabs being cranked, which creates damaging distortion. So leave it under about halfway and you should be fine. I don't reckon you'll be needing to go over that anyway lol.

Edited August 19, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1345699' date='Aug 19 2011, 06:04 PM']by amps that are not as powerful as the power rating of the cabs being cranked, which creates damaging distortion.[/quote]

Wanna explain how that works?

[daz]

All watts should be measured in [b]RMS [/b](As any fule kno, otherwise its a chizz)

Edited August 20, 2011 by daz

[alexclaber]

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/mythbusters1.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...ythbusters1.htm[/url]

I'll add some valve specific stuff when I have some time! Valve amps sound louder than solidstate amps for a given power rating but are no harder on the speakers than a solidstate amp of the same power rating. Same reason those TC Electronic amps sound like amps of about twice their actual power rating, because they use DSP to simulate valve amp behaviour.

[thodrik]

Personally I have never needed anything more than 300 solid state/hybrid watts (Trace Elliot 300 watts mind), especially if it is going through an 8x10/4x12 cab. This applies even when I was playing with two full Marshall guitar stacks.

On point of the topic, a Mesa 4x12 should have no problem coping with the power of a 300 watt valve amp. I don't have much proof in technical sense (I am an idiot in these things) but I have seen lots of bands playing with these set ups over the years:

300 watt valve amp
8x10/4x12 cabinet.

However if you want a really loud clean sound at huge volume levels, I'm not sure whether there is much advantage in having an all tube amp. It might be the Matamp fan in me, but the benefit in having a valve amp is pushing it to get some nice overdrive. Have you considered a hybrid solid state/valve amp like the Mesa bass amps? The M9 does 900 watts, which sound ridiculous but is probably needed if the guitarist is playing a Dual Rec or something.