Mixing speaker sizes

[ironderby]

I heard from someone that you can't mix a 2x10 and 1x15 cab because its dangerous or could ruin your amp. Is this true? because i want to add a 1x15 for a little punch, thanks.

[Lozz196]

It would only be dangerous if the combined ohms rating is less than your amp. If your amp is a 4 ohm amp, and you connect two 8 ohm cabs thats a total load of 4 ohms, so that would be fine. If however you were to connect two 4 ohm cabs, thats a total load of 2 ohms, and that is not fine, and the dangerous part. The speaker size in those cabs doesn`t make any difference.

However, many state that you shouldn`t mix speaker size because of loads of technical things that I don`t understand.

Saying that though, I had a Hartke set-up with a 210 & 115 and it sounded great - well it did to me. I would comment though, in general I`d expect more low-end presence from a 115.

[icastle]

There are some high brow technical rules about the effectiveness of mixing 1x15 and a 2x10 cabs, but in the real world, bass players have been doing it for years and continue to do so without any problems (provided you watch the impedance).

[flyfisher]

Yep, look after the ohms and you won't ruin your amp. Everything else is pretty subjective - if you like the sound then go for it.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='ironderby' post='1344860' date='Aug 18 2011, 03:59 PM']I heard from someone that you can't mix a 2x10 and 1x15 cab because its dangerous or could ruin your amp. Is this true? because i want to add a 1x15 for a little punch, thanks.[/quote]
So long as there are no impedance issues there's no reason you can't, but the results are completely unpredictable. With matched cabs the results are totally predictable, it's what you have but more of it. OTOH if you don't like what you have the best route is to find a cab you do like for tone, and use as many as required for adequate output. BTW, fifteens don't inherently have any more punch than tens or twelves, so adding a fifteen to get more punch is operating under a mistaken assumption.

[ficelles]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1344985' date='Aug 18 2011, 11:22 PM']So long as there are no impedance issues there's no reason you can't, but the results are completely unpredictable. With matched cabs the results are totally predictable, it's what you have but more of it. OTOH if you don't like what you have the best route is to find a cab you do like for tone, and use as many as required for adequate output. BTW, fifteens don't inherently have any more punch than tens or twelves, so adding a fifteen to get more punch is operating under a mistaken assumption.[/quote]

I always thought 10s gave more punch but then I guess that depends what you mean by the word... 15s tend to have a lower frequency rating than 10s or 12s (a sweeping generalisation I know but usually true within any specific model range) presumably as they have more cone area but then your real low end comes from the cab design rather than the speaker itself.

ficelles

[Mr. Foxen]

The danger is one cab being louder than the other, so it drowns out the weaker one farting out, so you don't pull your volume before it dies. Then it dies, and you turn up to compensate and the other one dies too. Which is why I just sent 2 10" and a 15" to the scrap yard.

[JTUK]

Typically use matched cabs...ie, the same model line from the same maker.

This will be a known and matched variable and should sound very good.

Since I don't like 15's myself, I would use 2x210 cabs..again from the same model line and maker.
This works far better for me.

A 1x15 rated typically at 3-400watts at 8 ohms and a 2x10 rated around 350watts at 8 ohms would be a good pairing as both cabs can take the same sort of power and is split evenly.

If you are mixing makes ...it becomes more of a lottery, IME.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='ficelles' post='1345018' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:00 AM']I always thought 10s gave more punch but then I guess that depends what you mean by the word...[/quote]
I think of 'punch' as meaning how quickly the speaker cone can react to the signal from the amp. Because there is mass involved, a smaller, lighter speaker cone should be able to move faster than a bigger heavier one.

This makes it easy to imagine how a small speaker can move fast enough to reproduce very high frequencies, which a large speaker physically cannot do (easily) but is not so helpful in imagining a small speaker reproducing low frequencies - though they can.

But then the whole electromechanical stuff overlaps with the psychology of how we perceive sound, which add a large dose of subjectivity to the whole subject.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1345066' date='Aug 19 2011, 07:55 AM']If you are mixing makes ...it becomes more of a lottery, IME.[/quote]

And even then, the positioning of the cabs can make more difference than almost anything else. A big open stage or crowded into the corner of a pub can have a huge impact on the sound, regardless of the care an attention given to mixing and matching drivers and cabs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1345280' date='Aug 19 2011, 11:44 AM']I think of 'punch' as meaning how quickly the speaker cone can react to the signal from the amp. Because there is mass involved, a smaller, lighter speaker cone should be able to move faster than a bigger heavier one.[/quote]

Two articles about transient response and 'punch':

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...cy-response.htm[/url]

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/what-is-punch.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...at-is-punch.htm[/url]

Remember F=m.a

And there's inductance to think about too!

[chris_b]

Mixed rigs I have used in the last 10 years.

I have run same make 210 & 115, different makes 410 &115, different makes 210 & 410 and same make 210 &112, all with no trouble. My experience is not restricted to 3' in front of the cab because these rigs have all been used for the back line at several jam nights, so I get to hear all my rigs from "out front".

I would mix and match without any worries. If it works it sounds great, if it doesn't then I'd change something, but I'd start from the expectation it will work because it always has for me.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1345333' date='Aug 19 2011, 07:22 AM']And there's inductance to think about too![/quote]There are some who believe that inductance is the primary concern.

[url="http://www.stereointegrity.com/docs/WooferSpeed.pdf"]http://www.stereointegrity.com/docs/WooferSpeed.pdf[/url]

And since the ten, twelve and fifteen inch versions of the same driver have similar inductance, no surprise as they usually share the same voice coil, it renders the varying Mms figures rather moot.

[PaulWarning]

Marshall recommend their 1x15 cab as an extention to their 2x10 or 4x10 combo's, nuff said

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='PaulWarning' post='1345420' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:28 PM']Marshall recommend their 1x15 cab as an extention to their 2x10 or 4x10 combo's, nuff said[/quote]

Marshall aren't really about engineering though, they are all about colouration.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1345430' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:40 PM']Marshall aren't really about engineering though, they are all about colouration.[/quote]

way above my head, I just think they sound good

[flyfisher]

[quote name='PaulWarning' post='1345434' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:46 PM']way above my head, I just think they sound good[/quote]


. . . . which is the only important thing.

Music is all about making stuff up and experimentation. There no real rules and the proof is in the listening. If someone likes the result then it's a good result.

Of course there are 'guidelines' and even engineering concepts that can be useful in giving us a head start when trying to create something but the ultimate test is whether it sounds good. Engineering alone can never be the arbiter of one thing being better than another because 'better' cannot be defined or measured in a musical context.

[icastle]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1345430' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:40 PM']Marshall aren't really about engineering though, they are all about colouration.[/quote]

I thought everything they did was black...

[xgsjx]

The Markbass standard 2x10 & 1x15 both have the same frequency range - 40hz - 20khz, so this kinda shows that Marshall are just going for sales.

[Musky]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1345589' date='Aug 19 2011, 04:05 PM']The Markbass standard 2x10 & 1x15 both have the same frequency range - 40hz - 20khz, so this kinda shows that Marshall are just going for sales.[/quote]
So are Markbass.

Stating '40hz - 20khz' is pretty meaningless without knowing how many dB that's accurate to. Though they already know that.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Musky

[icastle]

[quote name='Musky' post='1345830' date='Aug 19 2011, 08:46 PM']So are Markbass.

Stating '40hz - 20khz' is pretty meaningless without knowing how many dB that's accurate to. Though they already know that. [/quote]

Yep.

I use the following equation:

X+Y=Z

Where X is 'looks right', Y is 'sounds right' and Z='it is right'

[ficelles]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1345430' date='Aug 19 2011, 01:40 PM']Marshall aren't really about engineering though, they are all about colouration.[/quote]

No that isn't right, Marshall are all about "11".

ficelles

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Musky' post='1345830' date='Aug 19 2011, 08:46 PM']So are Markbass.

Stating '40hz - 20khz' is pretty meaningless without knowing how many dB that's accurate to. Though they already know that. [/quote]
Very true. But my point is that it has nothing to do with cone diameter & more to do with the cab & how much air is being moved.

[Musky]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1345961' date='Aug 19 2011, 11:20 PM']Very true. But my point is that it has nothing to do with cone diameter & more to do with the cab & how much air is being moved.[/quote]
Ah, gotcha.

In that case, +1.

[citymariner]

I run 210 and 115. I gig all over from little pubs to fairly big places that are setup for gigs and if I was given the choice I'd swap the 115 or a 210.

The sound I get with the stack is ace I love it! They are quality cabs and the 115 is punchy as.

However, the problem with changing venues is the way the room reacts to the different cabs.

Some times my 115 is too boomy, sometimes it is lost. I guess it is dependent on what it is sat on. Same goes for the 210.

(Having said all of that it is probably my EQing)

The way I have got around it is to make a constant platform to play on. That way the stack is always the same height from the floor.
I don't know whether this is affecting my tone but seeing many bands at gigs they always seem to leave their cabs in the flight case sat on the castor wheels so I presume i'm fine leaving stuff on my trolley board.

I have also thought about the flexibility the 210 and 115 give. You can run both or just one of each. You also have a choice of cab you want to mic up as well I guess...

That's just my 2p. There will be a lot of science associated with it - it's in everything we do! However, in the real world when everything is up to the interpretation of individuals I guess it is what makes you roll.