alexclaber Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='156112' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:58 PM']Ok. Sorry, I get what Xmax is but what's Sd?[/quote] It's the swept area, so the area of the cone that actually moves air (i.e. minus surround). Typically about 850cm^2 for 15", 520 for a 12" and 350 for a 10". Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Ah, thanks for that. So with plenty of Vd, there's a large surface area of the cone pushing air and a decent amount of movement of the cone without distortion? Did I understand that correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='156190' date='Mar 12 2008, 04:57 PM']So with plenty of Vd, there's a large surface area of the cone pushing air and a decent amount of movement of the cone without distortion?[/quote] Exactly! Your Acmes come out particularly well on that front. The port also contributes to moving air but across a narrow bandwidth and below the port tuning frequency the port's output and the speaker's output are out of phase which means they cancel each other out. What I've noticed happening with typical 4x10" cabs is they put the speakers in a smaller than ideal box which reduces low frequency output. By doing this they also reduce excursion, thus reducing the Xmax required to handle a given power input. They then tune the box to 40-50Hz, completely foregoing output below there but allowing the port to help the woofers out higher up in the bass region. Here's a plot of a typical neo 4x10"'s power handling. As you move left along the plot the power handling goes from being thermally limited (standard RMS rating the makers quote) to being excursion limited. Then the port starts to take over some of the air moving duties and the speaker excursion lessens, thus the power handling goes up again. Right around the port tuning frequency the power handling is again thermally limited (the speakers are barely moving at this point) and then below the tuning frequency the power handling drops very quickly (and the sensitivity drops very quickly too, so the max SPL - which is the sum of the two - really plummets). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 just get a twin 18" cab p.a style with an ampeg pre and a nice poweramp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man_at_arms84 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 [quote name='vegas_hooker' post='155825' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:30 AM']Last time I caught them they had an organist instead of a bassist. He was going through 2 SVT's and 2 8x10's. The guitarists were each going through 4 4x12's so I can only imagine what a bass player would need to compete with. I would actually say they go more for volume than frequency range in the rigs they use. It was the sort of volume that made me feel like I was about to have a nose bleed.[/quote] Sounds mint. I really want to see Sunn O))). Just to feel my head cave in. I love their records I can only imagine the FEEL of it live.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Not that I am at all interested in cabs that go down to A but I wish someone would write all this good cab/speaker stuff in the wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='156435' date='Mar 13 2008, 12:30 AM']Not that I am at all interested in cabs that go down to A but I wish someone would write all this good cab/speaker stuff in the wiki.[/quote] Patience... In the meantime this is rather good: [url="http://fuzzbass.fuzzphoto.eu/"]http://fuzzbass.fuzzphoto.eu/[/url] Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Well that got suddenly in depth and complicated. Most useful tip I've had was 'buy a sansamp, forget backline'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Well that got suddenly in depth and complicated. Most useful tip I've had was 'buy a sansamp, forget backline'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='157099' date='Mar 13 2008, 11:48 PM']Well that got suddenly in depth and complicated. Most useful tip I've had was 'buy a sansamp, forget backline'.[/quote] Well you should have said you'd just wanted the easy but probably incorrect answer, as opposed to the correct answer that may require engaging some brain cells. If you want to forget backline you better be playing gigs where you get seriously nice monitors. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 yeah my mates a sound engineer to, and he always says you can't polish a turd! he also hates behringer / crate stuff due to it putting out huge amounts of white noise that you just can't get rid of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='157232' date='Mar 14 2008, 09:49 AM']Well you should have said you'd just wanted the easy but probably incorrect answer, as opposed to the correct answer that may require engaging some brain cells. If you want to forget backline you better be playing gigs where you get seriously nice monitors. Alex[/quote] Theres a correct answer now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='157632' date='Mar 14 2008, 06:17 PM']Theres a correct answer now?[/quote] Of course, as ever posted by the infinitely wise alexclaber. To get a more detailed answer it helps to respond to the questions within the thread, like what are your 15" cabs? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) My 15s are a Peavey 115BX BW (or something, it says on the back) had is original 4 ohm replaced with a 8ohm speaker, the other is a home made that looks like its been built to same spec (ish) as they are exactly the same size, both ported, the home made has a smaller triangluar port, 3x3x pythagoras. I also own a H&K 4x10, which is a guitarists house so can't look at any firther detail, never intended to sell it so paid no attention before. Edit: I have a Peavey black widow speaker that can go ineither, as yet I've not managed to break either or been dissatified in any way, so have not had them out to look. Edited March 14, 2008 by Mr. Foxen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegarcia Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='157726' date='Mar 14 2008, 10:05 PM']I also own a H&K 4x10, which is a guitarists house[/quote] Have you got the worlds biggest 4x10 or the worlds smallest guitarist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='joegarcia' post='157787' date='Mar 15 2008, 01:09 AM']Have you got the worlds biggest 4x10 or the worlds smallest guitarist?[/quote] We actually do have the worlds shortest guitarist. And the most awesomest drummer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegarcia Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='157796' date='Mar 15 2008, 01:47 AM']We actually do have the worlds shortest guitarist. And the most awesomest drummer too.[/quote] Hang on a minute. Thats my drummer. Just looked at your signature. You aren't Incarnate on Choke are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Oooo, a full on Graph off! heh. Tbh, Ive had much more success finding a rig with a really musical midrange as this is what helps me on stage. Its nice to have a real nice boom occasionally but it just dont cut it in a band. try it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='ste_m3' post='157805' date='Mar 15 2008, 02:57 AM']Tbh, Ive had much more success finding a rig with a really musical midrange as this is what helps me on stage. Its nice to have a real nice boom occasionally but it just dont cut it in a band.[/quote] Exactly. You want a cab that doesn't break up due to the lows going into it and has plenty of midrange output and punch. Ampeg 8x10"s are -3dB by 60Hz and therefore -15dB by 30Hz (i.e. nowt!) but they have plenty of output in the 80-500Hz area which is what will get you heard when competing with a metal kick and detuned guitars. A bit of clank and grind up around 1kHz tends to help too. Your Peavey 1x15"s should do a fine job - just don't be afraid of turning the lows down and try using the semi-parametric EQ on the head to punch through in a frequency range where the guitars are making less noise. If that doesn't work get your guitarists to give up some of their lows - all too often inexperienced guitarists set their EQ so they fill up both the bass and guitar sonic space, not realising that most of the great guitar sounds don't have very much bottom at all. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='joegarcia' post='157803' date='Mar 15 2008, 02:30 AM']Hang on a minute. Thats my drummer. Just looked at your signature. You aren't Incarnate on Choke are you?[/quote] I am indeed. Rehearsal with borrow cabs in a coupla hours. This ones just down to D though, should be reasonably sensible, except for loudness. Wouldn't like to call Ben an inexperienced guitarist, leaving sonic space may not be his forté. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegarcia Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Hehe, James just came by to pick up the keys so he can get his drums out of our practice space. have a good one. I did the sound for Mea Culpa a few times and yes, he did indeed have an obscene guitar sound. [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='157904' date='Mar 15 2008, 11:26 AM']I am indeed. Rehearsal with borrow cabs in a coupla hours. This ones just down to D though, should be reasonably sensible, except for loudness. Wouldn't like to call Ben an inexperienced guitarist, leaving sonic space may not be his forté.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='joegarcia' post='157971' date='Mar 15 2008, 01:57 PM']Hehe, James just came by to pick up the keys so he can get his drums out of our practice space. have a good one. I did the sound for Mea Culpa a few times and yes, he did indeed have an obscene guitar sound.[/quote] i've done sound for mea culpa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='157861' date='Mar 15 2008, 10:02 AM']get your guitarists to give up some of their lows - all too often inexperienced guitarists set their EQ so they fill up both the bass and guitar sonic space, not realising that most of the great guitar sounds don't have very much bottom at all.[/quote] Yeah, that guitar sound may work great on record but really gets in the way live. Especially if you have a keyboard player too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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