northstreet Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I did a long car journey yesterday and had Radio 2 on as company most of the way. After a while I noticed (to my ears anyway) that the bass sound on nearly all recent stuff is very similar - very deep and full but with no edge or crispness at all. The contrast to various bass sounds in the oldies was striking - you could hear picked Precisions in the Motown stuff, the much brighter tones of the late 70's-80's punk/funk/pop tunes, the hollow Ricky sound every now and again etc etc. I'm wondering if it's due to the popularity of listening to music on netbooks, iPods, music phones etc. Perhaps the producers are mixing the sound for small, tinny speakers or cheap in-ear headphones rather than hi-fi speakers and that's the bass sound that works best. But it's very boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think i know what you're referring to- the "pop" bass sound. I think the producers of these pop albums want the bass to fill in the low end and very much sit in it's own place in the mix, rather than interfering with any of the rest of the instruments. That's why they tend to have a lot in the way of that low mid sound with almost no treble or attack sound at all. Obviously as a bass player it's not a particularly appealing sound but if you view it in terms of how it works with the song as a whole, i think it's pretty good really. And it certainly does allow you to be heard in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Radio in the car. Hardly the perfect listening environment. Radio 2 during the day. Hardly a wide range of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have a bit of an ongoing struggle with engineers who just don't know how to mix 'old school' bass any more. They seem to go straight for big, open lifeless [i]trhhhhrrummm[/i]. It drives me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Could it be sequenced bass from workstation keyboards on some of them? Most workstations have an array of sampled bass guitars, which sound like bass, but are a bit lifeless when played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Car speakers and music in question are two great points already mentioned. I would say if you listened to 5 distinctly different genres of songs recorded this/last year, by and large you would hear 5 different bass tones IMO. If you're listening to Lady Gaga you get what you heard, it'll be different on a RHCP record and on a Killers record and on an Iron Maiden record and on a Cannibal Corpse record etc etc I would also add that the role of the basslines will alter the sound from band to band. A band where the bassist never does a fill outside root + 5th + octave will probably not be fussed about the bassline sound or volume, where it carries the tune, i.e. Hey (NOT Snow Hey Oh) by RHCP or Mr Brightside by the killers, the bass has integral lines as is mixed as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Music used to be crafted and recorded as a piece of “work” but these days it’s purpose just seems to be noisy wallpaper, and not really meant to be listened to in any detail. These days I think you'll find that all instruments are recorded with the same lack of imagination. ps Maybe were just talking about a lack of imagination in the BBC R2 scheduling department! Edited August 23, 2011 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Our last mixed recording was done when I was away on holiday. I noticed a lot of the clank, treble and raspy overdrive had been smoothed over and fattened up a bit. It was perfectly OK within the context of the songs but I would rather have kept a bit more of the sound as it was when it went to the desk. I shall be firmly stating my case prior to mixing of our new stuff this week. As my guitarist said when I mentioned it to him "They all want to tame the bass". Luckily he's on my side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I find myself taming my own sound when mixing my band's stuff. As much as I like a bit of character, it's pretty tricky to retain that without overpowering the other instruments I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 hiho,they can,t be bothered to work with sound as it,s easier to have a core sound set up on the bass channel on their desk which they use for all their work. It,s the old"if it,s in tune and on time it,s fine ,nobody really listens to a bass" You can get the same if you have an intricate bass line you,ll hear the call"we don,t need that ,simplify it"good advice sometimes but I,d like to see them say that to Lemmy ,Geddy,The Ox,and everyone else I,ve forgotten to mention. I have in the past called their bluff and said that the sound was too toppy,clanky overdriven and a wee bit overpowering the track,then the rascal dropped himself in it ,smiled and got it right,wonderful chap after that and couldn,t do enough after that. You could turn up with a £10 beater with 10 year old flatwounds and if he says a word just tell him that "you always make me sound like that so I,m saving you the bother. Do not take my advice but it would be good if you could,better to change the studio.You will find a guy that loves bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1349091' date='Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM']Music used to be crafted and recorded as a piece of “work” but these days it’s purpose just seems to be noisy wallpaper, and not really meant to be listened to in any detail.[/quote] I like this. A lot! Think I shall steal it for my sig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Actually I think its the car stereo to blame, and the listening environment in general you live with in a car. For one you have immense noise in that environment, secondly it is highly possible that the bass response is highly tuned to the point of producing 'one note bass' and nothing else on that system. Both of these situations will cause you to only hear a single tone from the bass across a variety of material. You suggest that all bass tones in modern pop are the same, well depends on the modern pop really, but deep pillowy bass is easy to mix the rest of the track to, its underneath everything. One other poitn, the worst palce to hear full deep bass is tinny little laptop speakers, instead more and more amterial is mixed for earbuds, and the car (large contributing factor in the loudness war was geting mixes heard in that environment). Edited August 23, 2011 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' post='1349139' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:30 PM']Actually I think its the car stereo to blame, and the listening environment in general you live with in a car. For one you have immense noise in that environment, secondly it is highly possible that the bass response is highly tuned to the point of producing 'one note bass' and nothing else on that system. Both of these situations will cause you to only hear a single tone from the bass across a variety of material. You suggest that all bass tones in modern pop are the same, well depends on the modern pop really, but deep pillowy bass is easy to mix the rest of the track to, its underneath everything.[/quote] But the OP says the Bass on the older tunes still shone through with more detail ? And i have often thought that, when listening in the car. Garry Edited August 23, 2011 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='lowdown' post='1349150' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:40 PM']....But the OP says the Bass on the older tunes still shone through with more detail....[/quote] Most Top 40 and Hit Parade songs released in the 60's were recorded and mixed to be heard on transistor and car radios, which is why studios preferred Precisions with their focus on mids, the bass lines were played up the neck and a lot of bass players recorded with a pick. When "concept" albums started being made the recording quality improved 1000%, so did the sound of bass and the playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Could it be a result of digital recording - more frequencies from each instrument are present and potentially taking up sonic space in the mix? Plus modern music is more likely to include synths, distorted guitars etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I agree with the OP. I also feel that so many modern records lack real bass tones as well - not just pop. Love The Mars Volta - but as a modern example, just wish JA's bass parts had more definition and less thump. Many modern records for me have too much general thump, and no actual 'bass'. I for one far prefer bass on older records..... Another example is Lemmy. Motorhead albums used to have a really defined bass sound. I still love the albums, but in the last 10-12 years, Lem's bass tone has all but vanished into a low-end rumble. I played drums for a long while as well - so don't get me started on drum sounds. It's the same problem there as bass as far as I'm concerned! Just my 2p's worth..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1349164' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:55 PM']Hit Parade songs released[/quote] Love that, Along with Popular Beat Combo's...Mi'Lud Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Wil' post='1349173' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:57 PM']Could it be a result of digital recording - more frequencies from each instrument are present and potentially taking up sonic space in the mix? Plus modern music is more likely to include synths, distorted guitars etc.[/quote] Interesting point, all the older stuff you are talking about was mastered for vinyl, and as we all know on vinyl you cannot have too much deep bass energy as you will literally pop the needle out of the groove. Now we have digital there are no such constraints so bass can (and does) go a lot deeper. The point is that the OP feels that along with the greater energy at deeper frequencies there is a perceived lack of mid range info to give his ears somehting to grab onto and relate to timbre and pitch of the specific bass instrumetn. Again I dont think he is wrong, the loudness wars have also meant a massive reduction in the ratio of RMS to peak in a track, or how much the volume changes when something loud happens (like a kick drum transient), leading to far less punchy sounding CD's. Ironically this is as a result of record execs wanting to have the loudest track on the radio when heard in a car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The answer is, dont listen to modern pop, do listen in a proper environment, rather than in the car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You should have told us about your car stereo first really....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='lowdown' post='1349207' date='Aug 23 2011, 05:24 PM']....Love that, Along with Popular Beat Combo's...Mi'Lud....[/quote] And the groovy, swinging sounds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1349091' date='Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM']Music used to be crafted and recorded as a piece of “work” but these days it’s purpose just seems to be noisy wallpaper, and not really meant to be listened to in any detail.[/quote] That's a bit too much of an over-generalisation for me. 'Pop music' as noisy wallpaper seems accurate enough but I certainly wouldn't condemn all music on that basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Was just the same with mainstream songs in the late 80s - they all had a same "current" production sound. I find I can listen to a song from that era and date it far more easily than any other era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkypenguin Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Depends what music you're listening to. Modern pop merits a particular sound, and the producers are there to make records that will sell and be radio friendly, not to be creative or ground breaking with the bass sounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janmaat Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1349213' date='Aug 23 2011, 05:29 PM']Again I dont think he is wrong, the loudness wars have also meant a massive reduction in the ratio of RMS to peak in a track, or how much the volume changes when something loud happens (like a kick drum transient), leading to far less punchy sounding CD's. Ironically this is as a result of record execs wanting to have the loudest track on the radio when heard in a car....[/quote] +1 everything today gets compressed to the max, and as loud as possible, with the bass covering all the lows at full blast, just with a tiny gap to leave some bass drum through. Modern pop music is all about the "max" sound, where the whole music is as loud and full as possible, not about good sounding instruments. A while ago I was with some youngsters listening to stuff on that laptop, crap speakers etc., and was trying to introduce some old music - like, Leadbelly. Was incredible how impossibly thin that sounds in a modern music environment. Then someone puts something modern on, and bang! the room is full. But then, loudness is not music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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