Rare Earth elements and valves

[Mr. Foxen]

Just occurred that the special coatings on some valve gubbins involves rare earth elements. Are they going to be affected by the sudden stopping of supply thing, in the nearish future? Tiny amounts, but if you can't get it, you are stuck, although I assume there are stockpiles of each step of the way to a working valve.

[EdwardHimself]

it's not a stopping of the REE exports is it? It's just a clampdown on the quota of REE exports. Anyway, just because something is rare earth does not nessicerally mean it has to be from china, that's just the problem with neodymium at the moment isn't it? I thought most valves were made in china anyway...

Edited August 23, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[icastle]

Strontium and Barium are the two rare earth elements that spring to mind.

Strontium is really common, Barium less so but still constitutes about 0.5% of the earths surface.
The amount of rare earth used in a valve is very small so I don't think supplies are going to run out in the near future.

[Mr. Foxen]

Neodymium is just the example that affects magnets and is easy to talk about, the Chinese clampdown is across loads of rare earths, and like neodymium they've cornered the market over a period of time by undercutting, stuff that has more esoteric uses that making magnets out of. I don't know if the clampdown includes export of products containing rare earths, that would make a sort of economic sense as suddenly you could only buy technological products from China, and it would keep everywhere else struggling to produce technology competitively.

When I say 'stopping of supply' I don't mean China's is totally stopping supplying the world, I mean people using the stuff suddenly have their supply stopped, because demand is elsewhere, in the scheme of things, 40 year obsolete technology used only for indulgence is not a priority use.

[markstuk]

Of course there are plenty of other rare earth deposits outside of China, indeed they're restarting production in the US and South America... It was just that the Chinese did it cheaper and dirtier and we were happy with the price..
[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1349128' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:19 PM']Neodymium is just the example that affects magnets and is easy to talk about, the Chinese clampdown is across loads of rare earths, and like neodymium they've cornered the market over a period of time by undercutting, stuff that has more esoteric uses that making magnets out of. I don't know if the clampdown includes export of products containing rare earths, that would make a sort of economic sense as suddenly you could only buy technological products from China, and it would keep everywhere else struggling to produce technology competitively.

When I say 'stopping of supply' I don't mean China's is totally stopping supplying the world, I mean people using the stuff suddenly have their supply stopped, because demand is elsewhere, in the scheme of things, 40 year obsolete technology used only for indulgence is not a priority use.[/quote]

[dan670844]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1349128' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:19 PM']Neodymium is just the example that affects magnets and is easy to talk about, the Chinese clampdown is across loads of rare earths, and like neodymium they've cornered the market over a period of time by undercutting, stuff that has more esoteric uses that making magnets out of. I don't know if the clampdown includes export of products containing rare earths, that would make a sort of economic sense as suddenly you could only buy technological products from China, and it would keep everywhere else struggling to produce technology competitively.

When I say 'stopping of supply' I don't mean China's is totally stopping supplying the world, I mean people using the stuff suddenly have their supply stopped, because demand is elsewhere, in the scheme of things, 40 year obsolete technology used only for indulgence is not a priority use.[/quote]


It will end in war probably while the US still has some teeth, I think this is the till of the iceberg!!

[Mr. Foxen]

The fun part is America's war tech needs rare earths to work. They had to buy the titanium for the Blackbird from Russia via the grey market which is quite funny.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='markstuk' post='1349140' date='Aug 23 2011, 04:31 PM']Of course there are plenty of other rare earth deposits outside of China, indeed they're restarting production in the US and South America... It was just that the Chinese did it cheaper and dirtier and we were happy with the price..[/quote]

Hmm if that's the case then it sounds like they're shooting themselves in the foot with this one.

[markstuk]

Not really.. They'll make hay for a few years, then they have the option to reduce the price again.. The quantities used in military technology are not terribly high in comparison with the global market for rare earths and I suspect the US has years of strategic reserves anyway....

But I suspect China does not see itself as a long term commodities exporter - look at it's activities in Africa and South America in terms of corralling resources...


Mark

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1349341' date='Aug 23 2011, 07:34 PM']Hmm if that's the case then it sounds like they're shooting themselves in the foot with this one.[/quote]

Edited August 23, 2011 by markstuk

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1349341' date='Aug 23 2011, 07:34 PM']Hmm if that's the case then it sounds like they're shooting themselves in the foot with this one.[/quote]

They can limit the quota, forcing other countries to invest in infrastructure, whilst they stockpile. Once all the investment is made and the other countries are producing, they can dump their stockpile on the market, ruin prices, all the investors are screwed and the investment ruined, and cause some serious economic turmoil everywhere, about then they start invading. Or start the process again for fun.