bassjamm Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hello there kind people of the bass world... How goes it? I've recently embarked on a quest of crazy effect noise making stuff...some what to the detriment of my bank balance but it's all been good fun. I'm trying to emulate that dirty DubStep kind of bass sound, the warbling and the nastiness of it. But also the sounds created by John Davis of Nerve, the weird Electronica kind of stuff. Basically I'm trying to turn my bass guitar rig into a bass synth rig in a round about way. Looking at the Moog pedals, I seem to be interested in the MF-105M and the MF-101. The 101 has the Low Pass Filter, which I assume I could use to create that really huge low end madness with and then open it up to release the whacky high end stuff using a pedal? And the 105, that has an LFO I believe, and you can use it to create patterns that the input triggers? I'm not that clued up on it all to be fair. Anyway, I've got a Line 6 M13, Boss OC-2, EBS OctaBass, Mesa Boogie Bottle Rocket and some other things knocking about. But I do think I need something like one of these Moogs to really open the whole whack synth like world of noise. Any suggestions on which Moog might offer the most, or which would be the most usable? I see John Davis of Nerve uses the MF-101 controlled via the MP-201 multi-pedal...interesting stuff! Thanks in advance for any thoughts. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 cue Shep.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 doesn't the M13 have a wah model you could set to a LPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTFS Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1350049' date='Aug 24 2011, 10:57 AM']cue Shep.. [/quote] Was just about to say.... [quote name='cheddatom' post='1350103' date='Aug 24 2011, 11:48 AM']doesn't the M13 have a wah model you could set to a LPF?[/quote] It does but I've tried them before, it just doesn't work though. I'm assuming you're getting all the synthy noises from the M13, in which case I'd definitely start with the MF101, just make sure you have an expression pedal or four to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 As far as I know, any LPF should be the same, so if you have on available already it's just about putting the right signal before it in the chain. I'm sure Shep will correct me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='cheddatom' post='1350154' date='Aug 24 2011, 12:34 PM']As far as I know, any LPF should be the same[/quote] Heavens, no. There are different filter slopes, resonant and non-resonant filters, different bandwidths of the resonant peak at the corner frequency... not to mention the differences in methods and circuits used by different manufacturers, even if they're aiming towards the same goal. It's like saying that every Jazz-type bass should be the same. As an example, Spectrasonics' soft-synth Omnisphere has at least a dozen low-pass filters to choose from, and they all sound different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='bassjamm' post='1350033' date='Aug 24 2011, 10:45 AM']I'm trying to emulate that dirty DubStep kind of bass sound, the warbling and the nastiness of it. But also the sounds created by John Davis of Nerve, the weird Electronica kind of stuff. Basically I'm trying to turn my bass guitar rig into a bass synth rig in a round about way.[/quote] Here's an interview with John Davis talking a bit about his effects [url="http://www.tonefactor.com/blog/2010/07/22/interview-with-john-davis-of-nerve/"]http://www.tonefactor.com/blog/2010/07/22/...davis-of-nerve/[/url] Slightly off topic,but still relevant.....the new Nerve album is brilliant (as is their last album). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Funny enough, I have a moog MF-101 AND a Moog MF-105B (the M wasn't out when I got it). Here's a review of them... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=36164"]Moogerfooger review[/url] The song "Puzzles" has good use of them on all parts. & here's a long video of me messing about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The 101 would probably be the best 1st purchase. The 105 can run stereo, so you can route the 2 channels on different frequencies & use different effects on them & then blend them back together with a small mixer of some sort or put the 2 signals to 2 seperate amps or rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='1350186' date='Aug 24 2011, 01:04 PM']Heavens, no. There are different filter slopes, resonant and non-resonant filters, different bandwidths of the resonant peak at the corner frequency... not to mention the differences in methods and circuits used by different manufacturers, even if they're aiming towards the same goal. It's like saying that every Jazz-type bass should be the same. As an example, Spectrasonics' soft-synth Omnisphere has at least a dozen low-pass filters to choose from, and they all sound different.[/quote] oh I thought it was just the same as a "low pass" as in just an EQ that cuts off everything above a certain point, and you can change that point with an EXP pedal. I know there are differences between the rate of cut-off (no idea what the proper name is) but they don't have resonant filters or anything. Clearly I have no idea about electronic music. I use my wah to create the kind of effect I thought we were talking about, where you go from a very dull sound and gradually fade to a bright sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTFS Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' post='1350234' date='Aug 24 2011, 01:38 PM'] oh I thought it was just the same as a "low pass" as in just an EQ that cuts off everything above a certain point, and you can change that point with an EXP pedal. I know there are differences between the rate of cut-off (no idea what the proper name is) but they don't have resonant filters or anything. Clearly I have no idea about electronic music. I use my wah to create the kind of effect I thought we were talking about, where you go from a very dull sound and gradually fade to a bright sound.[/quote] Very similar ideas and effects, but its like saying all distortion pedals are the same and trying to encompass distortion/OD and fuzz all together. Wah is actually a band pass, so it cuts off frequencies below and above the point you set. It works well on guitar since a guitar is mainly midrange anyway. A low pass filter will do the same kind of thing, it just keeps all the low frequencies in, hence being better for bass. The rate of cut off is the slope, then you have resonance which adds a boost/peak at the cutoff frequency. After that theres all the madness of adding LFO's a trigger that senses your playing. Edited August 24, 2011 by TomTFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='TomTFS' post='1350242' date='Aug 24 2011, 01:45 PM']Very similar ideas and effects, but its like saying all distortion pedals are the same and trying to encompass distortion/OD and fuzz all together. Wah is actually a band pass, so it cuts off frequencies below and above the point you set. It works well on guitar since a guitar is mainly midrange anyway. A low pass filter will do the same kind of thing, it just keeps all the low frequencies in, hence being better for bass. The rate of cut off is the slope, then you have resonance which adds a boost/peak at the cutoff frequency. After that theres all the madness of adding LFO's a trigger that senses your playing.[/quote] I use my wah on the high part of my blended signal chain, so when mixed together it works as a low pass rather than a band pass. So the main difference then is the resonance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Ta da! My I'm late to this discussion!! Many many types of low pass filter - I can't really add any more to what has been said, you need to try them to see what works for you. The Moog one has a rich warmth to it which is great for Electronica, although I find its envelope resonance to be quite understated compared to others. My 1st purchase from Moog would always be an MP-201, it is the glue that holds the bass in eletronica, from fat dub EQ settings to synth sweeps. No contest, don't look around, do not pass go, do not collect £200. Buy an expression pedal with it as well, connect it to cutoff and with the pedals you already have, you have got yourself an electronica set up. I own another 3 foogers and an MP-201 and use them all in my live set up. I don't own the murf, although I have played with it. For LFO duties, you can either rely on good modulation effects (chorus and tremolo) after the LPF, or do what I and John Davis and Bond (Miloopa) all do, which is to connect an MP-201 to it and control the cutoff knob with a triangle wave or similar for huge sub wobble - this is however very expensive as a set up, and I do think that running a good tremolo after the LPF still gives great results. Advantage of the MP-201, as well as it being the glue that holds foogers together, is that it accepts midi clock, so if you and a drummer play to a click, you can ensure your tremolo's are in exact time - as opposed to setting them up by ear. As for a 2nd choice - The obvious second fooger to go for as an electronica bassist is the Freqbox as paired with the LPF is a monster for crazy noise and swells - however, it's not as versatile as I'd like and if I could bear to sell it (again) I'd prob fill it space quickly. I use the phaser as it's massive sounding and creates some stunning sub textures, but my real 2nd choice would be the ring modulator! The Moog Ring Mod, on low settings is an amazing LFO an tremolo in itself, in fact it's the best tremolo pedal I've used on a bass... In its extreme settings the soundscapes it creates are amazing. It interacts great with other pedals and has become the Swiss army knife of noises on my board. Hope that helps... Shep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The moog is based on the LPF out of the Minimoog model D & has controls for cutoff (that is the correct term for it), resonance, amount (for the envelope follower), mix & drive. All apart from drive can be controled via CV (expression pedals or other moogers). It also has 2 switches. One for envelope response fast/slow & one for 2 pole/4 pole. It also has a CV out from the envelope follower which can be used to control any of it's CV ins or any other moogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjamm Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thanks for all the input guys and gals, really interesting stuff indeed! I had a feeling the LPF would be the weapon of choice to begin with...looks like the most usable for my situation. Just one thing you mentioned though Shep... [quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1350279' date='Aug 24 2011, 02:14 PM']My 1st purchase from Moog would always be an MP-201, it is the glue that holds the bass in eletronica, from fat dub EQ settings to synth sweeps. No contest, don't look around, do not pass go, do not collect £200. Buy an expression pedal with it as well, connect it to cutoff and with the pedals you already have, you have got yourself an electronica set up.[/quote] Isn't the MP-201 just a controller for the other pedals in a round about way? In other words, don't I need a MoogerFooger for this to control before it's of any use to me? Sorry if I've missed something here, just thought I'd clarify it is all. Thanks in advance folks... Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='bassjamm' post='1350494' date='Aug 24 2011, 05:23 PM']Thanks for all the input guys and gals, really interesting stuff indeed! I had a feeling the LPF would be the weapon of choice to begin with...looks like the most usable for my situation. Just one thing you mentioned though Shep... Isn't the MP-201 just a controller for the other pedals in a round about way? In other words, don't I need a MoogerFooger for this to control before it's of any use to me? Sorry if I've missed something here, just thought I'd clarify it is all. Thanks in advance folks... Jam[/quote] you'd probably not realise the benefit of the moog units without the correct controls. unfortunately, it's an expensive business.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I want an MP-201 (will get one one day), but if you haven't the funds for one, then you definitely need to get an expression pedal of some sort (I use a Moog EP-2 & hopefully getting another until I can afford the MP-201). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' post='1350540' date='Aug 24 2011, 05:56 PM']I want an MP-201 (will get one one day), but if you haven't the funds for one, then you definitely need to get an expression pedal of some sort (I use a Moog EP-2 & hopefully getting another until I can afford the MP-201).[/quote] yes. best budget solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='bassjamm' post='1350494' date='Aug 24 2011, 05:23 PM']Thanks for all the input guys and gals, really interesting stuff indeed! I had a feeling the LPF would be the weapon of choice to begin with...looks like the most usable for my situation. Just one thing you mentioned though Shep... Isn't the MP-201 just a controller for the other pedals in a round about way? In other words, don't I need a MoogerFooger for this to control before it's of any use to me? Sorry if I've missed something here, just thought I'd clarify it is all. Thanks in advance folks... Jam[/quote] Yes - it is just a controller and you do not need one to use the moogerfoogers, although as it's already been said to use most of them live you'll likely want an expression pedal (certainly with the LPF). If you expect to recreate much of what John Davis does without one though you may struggle. It opens up Moogerfoogers an awful lot as well as controlling midi devices and a whole lot more. There's a lot of babble out there about the MP-201 and much of what Moog write about it is quite hard to follow. In essence... It is an expression pedal with 4 outputs - so it can effect 4 perameters at once on one fooger, or 4 single perameters on 4 different foogers or any combination you can think of. They can be controlled together or in any combination and hold multiple presets so you can set differed start and end points for 4 expression pedals all working under the foot at once - like having 4 expression pedals connected to a fooger. On top of that, rather than controlling a perameter with expression you can control them with a range of other options, each fooger reacts differently (or not at all) to these options, but some basically turn the foogers into totally different beasts. They are LFO - range of waveforms, full control of rate, depth, offset and a range of others. Som you can turn your ring mod into a spacey tremolo or control the LPF cutoff with a triangle wave for the huge Dubstep wobble. Envelope - one tap envelopes to trigger a swell or similar effects following a preset evelope wave form. This can be used for one tap synth swells to to make crazy effects I'm a range of ways Noise - puts White noise down the cv channel, some perameters do nothing, other go insane. Very useful with the Freqbox Gate - all or nothing setting works in latching or momentary mode. Flips from a preset value to the full CV value and back. Each of these settings can be tailored to huge degrees but this is a fair over view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjamm Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Woah...thanks for all of that chaps! Seems like a powerful piece of kit. What I was meaning though Shep is as follows. You said you'd make the MP-201 your first Moog purchase. Before any of the pedals? I was of the impression that the MP-201 only controls other pedals/midi units etc, not acts as a stand alone unit. So if I were to look at buying the MP-201 first of all, surely I'd not be able to use it until I had a 'Fooger for it to control? Hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to be pedantic or anything, just making sure I'm not getting my wires crossed is all. I can definitely see the advantages that the MP-201 offers though, very cool indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I've just reread what I put - very sorry dude. That was a pure typo! I meant to say my 1st purchase would be the MF-101 (LPF) / my description of why is relevant to the LPF. That will teach me to write long posts on my iPhone when I should be working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjamm Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 [quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1350961' date='Aug 25 2011, 07:24 AM']I've just reread what I put - very sorry dude. That was a pure typo! I meant to say my 1st purchase would be the MF-101 (LPF) / my description of why is relevant to the LPF. That will teach me to write long posts on my iPhone when I should be working! [/quote] Ah no worries kind sir I was thinking the LPF would be the first beast to tackle. But you reckon the MP-201 would definitely be worth considering to get the most out of the Moog's? Or could a couple of expression pedals get me started? Thanks Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 A couple of exp pedals would certainly get you started & get you wondering what else you can plug into CV, but from what I've heard (from listening to shep's stuff & Nerve & Maloopa) I'd say the MP-201 would be a valuable part of getting that sound. BTW, you can't take a CV out from the Bass Murf (not sure it's the same with the Midi Murf), it only has CV in. You have to use one of the patterns to make a vibrato to get that wobble. It is a fun bit of kit though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 +1 An LPF with an expression pedal in the cutoff will be enough to get you the mainstay of the sound and decide if it's a road you want to go down. Our new EP is being mixed on the 18th Sept and 1 of the tracks is fooger and MP-201 dominated so you can hear it used in a few different ways in the same track... I'd send you the line mix to hear but the balance is all off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 [quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1350585' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:43 PM']Envelope - one tap envelopes to trigger a swell or similar effects following a preset evelope wave form. This can be used for one tap synth swells to to make crazy effects I'm a range of ways[/quote] Can it be triggered from an external source? Could you wire it up to operate like the EHX BMS, for example - triggering the envelope with each note? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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