Flatwound String Tension

[Hit&Run]

Would a set of 45-105 flatwound strings have a noticably different tension to a set of 45-105 rounds?
I'm sure I remember someone saying that rounds and flats have differing tensions.

If the answer's already on here somewhere, feel free to point me in the right direction.

Cheers.

[Buzz]

There's notes about it in the wiki, and a few threads scattered around, but like rounds, they vary in tension just like rounds.

One thing we're all certain of is that Rotosound Flats have a very high tension, I'm not sure I'm struck on them personally.

[bnt]

It's a little confusing. On the one hand, I heard that the move to roundwounds was the main reason Rickenbacker developed the 4003 - because players of 4001s were having neck problems because of them.

On the other hand, if I look at the tension figures that D'Addario publish on their website, the Flatwounds are slightly heavier than Nickel rounds for the same gauge, but a lot heavier than the stainless steel rounds.
Chrome Flatwound CB105 E 0.105 41.5lb 18.82kg
Nickel Roundwounds XLB105 E 0.105 40.3lb 18.28kg
Stainless ProSteels PSB105 E 0.105 37.3lb 16.92kg

[Beedster]

I think it's fair to say that the majority of flats will feel stiffer than the majority of rounds for the same gauge. There are of course exceotions, for example TI Jazz Flats feel less stiff than most flats and probably some rounds will feel stiffer than some flats (although I don't know much about rounds). La Bella Deep Talkin Flats are about as stiff a string as you'l ever play, I used to string my Precisions with them but found them ultimately too hard on the fingers to play for long periods, I use them on my practice bass now on the basis that anything I can play on them competently I can play easily and well on TIs.
Chris

[Mottlefeeder]

The pitch of the note is determined by the weight per unit length of the string, its length and its tension.

Where a flatwound string has been squeezed flat (as against ground flat) it will have fewer/smaller holes between the internal overwindings, and so will be heavier per unit length. This type of string will need higher tension to get up to the same note as a same-sized roundwound.

[bigjohn]

I've got a bass that I'm slowly repairing.

At one stage (about 15 years ago) it got got flood damaged, and ended up with quite a serious bow. It must have got wet, and then whoever was in charge of if left the strings on.

Using the truss rod - and a couple of washers to get extra turn on it - I then managed to almost get it straight, but then split the neck - the truss rod came right out the back up by the headstock. Was a shock to say the least.

I glued this split - clamped it - and tried again - the same thing happened.

Only then did I think "hmmm - I'm putting flatwounds on it" - and realised the tension was higher.

The neck has since been soaked in a bath - and jigged to put a back bow in it. Now it's quite straight with flats on - but some of the fretboard has swelled, so it needs frets removed and the fretboard to be sanded flat again.

All fun. All because I decided to use this bass again and I don't like roundwounds anymore.


Certainly in general - flatwounds are higher tension. Stands to reason really doesn't it - there's more metal in the string so they take more tension to get to the required pitch.

[pete.young]

[quote name='bnt' post='156446' date='Mar 13 2008, 01:10 AM']On the other hand, if I look at the tension figures that D'Addario publish on their website, the Flatwounds are slightly heavier than Nickel rounds for the same gauge, but a lot heavier than the stainless steel rounds.
Chrome Flatwound CB105 E 0.105 41.5lb 18.82kg
Nickel Roundwounds XLB105 E 0.105 40.3lb 18.28kg
Stainless ProSteels PSB105 E 0.105 37.3lb 16.92kg[/quote]
Interesting stuff this.

I've just acquired some TI Jazz Flats to replace the light roundwounds on my Precision. Using Ti's and D'Addarios figures:

String D'Addario EPS 190 TI Jazz Flats
Gauge Tension Gauge Tension
G 40 33lb 43 37lb
D 60 43lb 56 37lb
A 75 40lb 70 31lb
E 95 34lb 100 34lb

Total 150lb 139lb

Which seems to give 11lb less for the TI flats than the Daddario Ls. I'm not sure whether that's going to require a truss rod adjustment or not given that the action could come down a bit and it would be an improvement. I hope not because I don't like having to take the neck off, call me a wimp if you must :-)

Curses - does anyone know how to insert tab characters into this 'orrible editor?

Edited March 13, 2008 by pete.young

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='156471' date='Mar 13 2008, 08:30 AM']Where a flatwound string has been squeezed flat (as against ground flat)[/quote]
Flats are wound with flat wire (like tape) not like halfs that can be squeezed (pressure wound like roto solo bass) or ground (lots of ground halfs around). See the Wiki for more info.

[Soulfinger]

I found that D´Addario Chromes have pretty much the same tension than their XLs one size bigger, i. e. a set of Chromes in 40-95 feels like a set of XLs in 45-100 (to me anyway). Chromes sound fantastic BTW.

Fender flats, however, have really nasty tension. I had the ML set in 50-100 and thought they were excessively stiff. Plus they didn´t sound half as good as the Chromes to me. YMMV, of course.

[jacko]

[quote name='Beedster' post='156462' date='Mar 13 2008, 07:55 AM']La Bella Deep Talkin Flats are about as stiff a string as you'l ever play.[/quote]

i don't agree with this statement at all. I have deep talking flats on my kelly and they're like butter. They even make the DR roundwounds on my normal basses seem tight (and they're not). Rotosound flats on the other hand felt like cheesewire in comparison.

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='156702' date='Mar 13 2008, 01:17 PM']Flats are wound with flat wire (like tape) not like halfs that can be squeezed (pressure wound like roto solo bass) or ground (lots of ground halfs around). See the Wiki for more info.[/quote]
True, - sloppy use of words on my part.