lobematt Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've heard a lot of good and bad things about the MU. Just wondering who's in it here and is it worth it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I you work as a musician and make a living out of it, or use it to supplement your income in a big way and you rely on your instruments to make that money, then yes. If you're a hobbyist playing in a little covers band every now and then, then no. Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ^^^^^ this. Nothing more to say really. I fall into the former cat. so I am in it. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobematt Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm starting to make some pennies from playing now, what benefits do you get? The only one I've seen so far that would apply to me really would be the gear insurance/public liability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 For me, it's worth it for the amount of insurance more than anything - £2000 free instrument insurance, public liability insurance and even some kind of personal injury insurance. Cost of membership is cheaper than paying for all this insurance outside the MU. £160 a year for anyone who doesn't know. It's also nice to know that other benefits like contracts, legal advice etc are there if I need them, though I rarely use them. I think that it can be really easy (particularly for musicians who are less experienced in the business side of things) to make uninformed decisions and having a source of advice can be really useful. I don't think the MU can be viewed like other unions because musicians are very rarely on a set wage and there are too many bands willing to play for little money for MU rates to be accepted as normal, but, at least for me personally, the benefits of being a member outweigh any short-comings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Instrument insurance for me was nothing like that expensive, for £4000's worth of gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='dc2009' post='1350480' date='Aug 24 2011, 05:08 PM']Instrument insurance for me was nothing like that expensive, for £4000's worth of gear?[/quote] IIRC, the cost of public liability insurance outside the MU would have worked out more expensive for me than the cost of MU subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm in it for the PL and Instruments insurance. When I started out as a youngster still at school we were ready to do our first support of a 'top' band and looking forward to it like you wouldn't know. The MU tried their best to have the concert closed down because we were not members (never heard of them). I got all my savings out of my post office account so all the band could join up - that's how disappointed I would have been. So it all left a nasty taste and I have mixed feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray5 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 On the whole, it's been worth it. As others have said gear insurance, public liability, legal advice, also contracts and teaching support - it all helps. I just wish they'd stuck to the previous format for the magazine. The current style looks more like a financial report! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was in the MU a long time ago, but only because we had to be in order to work in the US. Also it was very difficult to play on TV without belonging to the MU. Apart from that the MU have never been particularly relevant to me. I believe a few years ago a lot of the West End players quit the MU when it didn't fight for them in a dispute over synthesised music in theatres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 What, exactly, are the public liability issues for the band members? Isn't the venue usually covered for such things? For example, the last gig I played was for a birthday party in a pub with no payment involved - we just turned up with our (uninsured) gear and played. What was our PL position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'd like someone to convince me that it is worth it. Their website isn't going to get me to join as it seems mostly irrelevant. I earn ok from music but its not my main income. Currently to insure gear away from home and left in car - public liability and personal injury is less than the subs to join. I don't need a lawyer as my brother is psychotic and built like a brick shithouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1350575' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:32 PM']....What, exactly, are the public liability issues for the band members?....Isn't the venue usually covered for such things?....[/quote] If someone tripped over your gear and was injured as a result you could be sued for rather a lot! I guess venues are cutting costs and their reduced insurance premiums will only cover their property and their employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1350587' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:44 PM']If someone tripped over your gear and was injured as a result you could be sued for rather a lot![/quote] But doesn't the 'duty of care' extend both ways? Someone would have to be pretty careless to trip over our gear, unless they were drunk, in which case they have rendered themselves incapable of acting safely - which is hardly our problem is it? Isn;t there a test of 'reasonableness' in such matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) People sue for anything these days and "no win no fee" sharks will help them. And if they successfully argue that it was your fault, you loose your shirt, and probably a lot more. Edited August 24, 2011 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I see your point, but it does infuriate me. I'd really like to think that anyone who has been drinking would be unable to successfully sue anyone when they fall over. I've never heard of a drunk driver successfully suing someone after having an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 They don't have to be drunk, just injured by your gear or your actions. It's never happened to me but a guitarist I played with was always leaving his gear lying around before and after the gig. Several people tripped over it but fortunately none actually fell over. This guy was a court case waiting to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' post='1350575' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:32 PM']What, exactly, are the public liability issues for the band members? Isn't the venue usually covered for such things? For example, the last gig I played was for a birthday party in a pub with no payment involved - we just turned up with our (uninsured) gear and played. What was our PL position?[/quote] You could end up liable for potentially huge amounts of money. I'm an insurance lawyer by day, and I wouldn't dream of gigging without PL insurance. Some examples: - punter trips over some of your equipment while you're playing, unloading gear, or packing up after a gig - your PA speaker topples over during a gig because the stand fails and lands on someone's head (we had this happen, although in our case it fortunately missed everyone) - your amp has an electrical problem that causes a fire and burns down the venue (yes - the venue will be insured, but their insurers could sue you to recover what they pay out if you're at fault) As to the drunk point - you may be able to argue contributory negligence on the part of the drunk. But the law of negligence is largely about foreseeability, and it is foreseeable that there will be drunks leaving a venue after the gig while you're packing up (in fact its a certainty at most of the venues we play). You owe that drunk a duty of care. Contributory negligence might reduce the value of the claim but that's all it would do. FWIW MusicGuard include PL insurance if you insure your equipment with them. I can't remember the amounts, but its at least £2million from memory. And I think I pay around £150 - £200 per year for that plus £7,000 worth of equipment cover. Edited August 24, 2011 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='simon1964' post='1350651' date='Aug 24 2011, 07:46 PM']You could end up liable for potentially huge amounts of money. I'm an insurance lawyer by day - and would dream of gigging without PL insurance.[/quote] Not very well draughted - I'm glad you're not my lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='1350662' date='Aug 24 2011, 08:00 PM']Not very well draughted - I'm glad you're not my lawyer.[/quote] You couldn't afford me Edited August 24, 2011 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Good grammar or not, I think the point has been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm friends with the one of the main people in the South East -this is a message she sent me when I asked if I should join - hope it helps! ------------------------------------------- Public liability cover up to ten million Instrument insurance unto 2000 Personal accident cover Tax investigation cover Legal advice Contract advice Rights protection Career and business advice Teaching services But (and probably more importantly).................... It's a trade union and there's so much good stuff going on that people don't know about! As a freelancer i like the idea of being connected to a wider community of like minded people. About 30,000 musicians from all areas of the industry. We have contact with the DCMS to try and get musicians rights and needs included in debates and consultations. This is really important as at some level this affects us all members or not. You know on a gig we sometimes have a moan about stuff and why is this or that not happening, why hasn't anyone thought about this idea or whatever..........well the chances are it probably is being thought about. And if it's not the MU has a democratic process so you can get your ideas and issues on the agenda. That's why I'm so involved. I like to be able to give a bit of my time to help try and change things, and represent people that do similar work to me and represent my area of the country. The more I'm involved the more important it becomes for me. I've just been at the MU delegate conference, and I can say that we are lucky to have some seriously brilliant people working for and representing the MU. How could you not join us? www.musiciansunion.org.uk You can join online here! Does this help? If you want to know more ask me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='simon1964' post='1350651' date='Aug 24 2011, 07:46 PM']As to the drunk point - you may be able to argue contributory negligence on the part of the drunk. But the law of negligence is largely about foreseeability, and it is foreseeable that there will be drunks leaving a venue after the gig while you're packing up (in fact its a certainty at most of the venues we play). You owe that drunk a duty of care. Contributory negligence might reduce the value of the claim but that's all it would do.[/quote] So I'm responsible for the care of someone who is so sh1t-faced that he can't even stand up properly? That's one of the most depressing things I've ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was in the MU for 35 years. I let it lapse about 5 years ago. There was a time when, to be a professional musician, it was essential to be a member... however, times change! They no longer have the power/clout they once had. I haven't done much British telly since the 80s (I work mostly abroad). To do TOTP then, you had to be a member. It's possible that to work on the Beeb today you still have to be a member, in which case, you can join when needs be. The MU fight against musicians having to play for free at charity events demonstrates to me that they are struggling to justify their existence. Just appeared to me that I was throwing a whole load of money down the drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' post='1350714' date='Aug 24 2011, 08:48 PM']So I'm responsible for the care of someone who is so sh1t-faced that he can't even stand up properly? That's one of the most depressing things I've ever read.[/quote] Not exactly. In essence, you owe a duty to take [u]reasonable[/u] steps to avoid [u]forseeable[/u] injury. If a drunk comes onto stage and falls into the drum kit (we've had that happen too!) you are unlikely to be liable. On the other hand, if someone who's had a few drinks trips over a lead you leave in the main exit of the venue, then you are likely be liable. There are, of course, a lot of shades of grey in between those examples. But the main point is that, whatever the rights and wrongs of the law, you would be daft to gig without public liability cover. Edited August 24, 2011 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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