stingrayPete1977 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1350575' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:32 PM']What, exactly, are the public liability issues for the band members? Isn't the venue usually covered for such things? For example, the last gig I played was for a birthday party in a pub with no payment involved - we just turned up with our (uninsured) gear and played. What was our PL position?[/quote] You really do dislike anything legal being forced on you don't you Flyfisher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1350596' date='Aug 24 2011, 06:52 PM']But doesn't the 'duty of care' extend both ways? Someone would have to be pretty careless to trip over our gear, unless they were drunk, in which case they have rendered themselves incapable of acting safely - which is hardly our problem is it? Isn;t there a test of 'reasonableness' in such matters?[/quote] In this day and age, you practically need insurance for your insurance policy right? We've enough adverts on daytime TV these days to convince anyone to 'claim for a fall' if they see the pound signs go cha-ching. In that case, sadly we need to be ready for that when playing in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1350730' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:00 PM']You really do dislike anything legal being forced on you don't you Flyfisher?[/quote] Yes. If more people took more responsibility for their own actions then I think the world would be a better - and cheaper! - place. Don't you? I'm not suggesting people shouldn't go out, have a few drinks, get a bit boisterous etc etc. But if they end up falling over and crack their head on the side of my cab at the back of the band area then how can that be anything to do with me? Why should I have to pay insurance premiums to cover actions arising out of other people's stupidity? The world is going litigation-mad and most people are sleep-walking into encouraging it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Most people do have some sense but like the others have said it only takes one ambulance chaser who spots an opening and they are in there! I don't have personal cover ATM as I'm not a pro but if I was the increased number of gigs would increase the chances of trouble so I would get some no doubt about it. I have it for my everyday job as it carries a high risk of a claim occurring. Edited August 24, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='simon1964' post='1350665' date='Aug 24 2011, 08:05 PM']You couldn't afford me [/quote] Actually you shouldn't make that assumption, you obviously don't know much about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='bassace' post='1350762' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:30 PM']Actually you shouldn't make that assumption, you obviously don't know much about me.[/quote] My dads harder than your dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1350784' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:41 PM']My dads harder than your dad [/quote] My dog is bigger than your dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [quote name='skej21' post='1350797' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:48 PM']My dog is bigger than your dog! [/quote] That's probably true as I have 2 cavalier spaniels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='1350762' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:30 PM']Actually you shouldn't make that assumption, you obviously don't know much about me.[/quote] I made no assumptions and admit that I know nothing at all about you! It was just a light hearted response to your comment that you wouldn't want me as your lawyer. I wasn't offended by your comment, so try not to be offended by mine... Edited August 24, 2011 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 A bit of thread resurrection here... To those of you who are long time members can you answer the following? I'm particularly interested in the legal support side of stuff that the MU can offer, particularly where they say that they will check contracts etc for you. So If I were to receive and complete a recording/distribution contract etc, the MU would double check over the contract before I send it to ensure I haven't missed something and that someone isn't trying to shaft me - Thats my understanding. What I want to know is, that if the contract includes multiple people, for example a band which I am a part of, would the MU still offer this service to me if I was the only person named on the contract that was a member, or would every member of the band named on the contract need to be an MU member before they would help out? Cheers folks! Shep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Instrument insurance isn't worth anything. I have looked into it and asked a lot of questions to potential insurers. Turns out that apart from accidental damage the instruments aren't insured against much - certainly not from being nicked from the car or stage - now heres the killer bit - [b]unless supervised[/b] What does that mean? So, if you are watching your instrument and someone nicks it then you can make a claim! FFS what is the point in that. I'd rather sic my dog on the thieving bugger or twat em with a mic stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1346345114' post='1788129'] A bit of thread resurrection here... To those of you who are long time members can you answer the following? I'm particularly interested in the legal support side of stuff that the MU can offer, particularly where they say that they will check contracts etc for you. So If I were to receive and complete a recording/distribution contract etc, the MU would double check over the contract before I send it to ensure I haven't missed something and that someone isn't trying to shaft me - Thats my understanding. What I want to know is, that if the contract includes multiple people, for example a band which I am a part of, would the MU still offer this service to me if I was the only person named on the contract that was a member, or would every member of the band named on the contract need to be an MU member before they would help out? Cheers folks! Shep [/quote] I'm not sure Shep, but give 'em a bell - they really are a friendly bunch! I renewed the other day and had a great chat for waaaay longer than necessary to sort my subscription out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1346348623' post='1788191'] Instrument insurance isn't worth anything. I have looked into it and asked a lot of questions to potential insurers. Turns out that apart from accidental damage the instruments aren't insured against much - certainly not from being nicked from the car or stage - now heres the killer bit - [b]unless supervised[/b] What does that mean? So, if you are watching your instrument and someone nicks it then you can make a claim! FFS what is the point in that. I'd rather sic my dog on the thieving bugger or twat em with a mic stand. [/quote] I insured 2 Roscoe Basses for £3k each on top of my contents insurance. I have it from the person on the phone AND in writing that they are covered for theft and accidental damage in my property and ANY other locked/secured property (this was important for when they stay at my studio) in the UK. This cost £2 a month on top of my contents with the AA. To insure them in a vehicle was going to cost a silly amount though. [quote name='dood' timestamp='1346349208' post='1788203'] I'm not sure Shep, but give 'em a bell - they really are a friendly bunch! I renewed the other day and had a great chat for waaaay longer than necessary to sort my subscription out! [/quote] I emailed them but got a strange answer which wast really an answer. Something along the lines of 'why would members of you band possibly want to exist without being a member'. My Drummer, who is a member, called and asked. The lady said she had no idea and would call him back. That was a week ago. Thought I'd check here in case anyone had used that service. Shep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1346348623' post='1788191'] - certainly not from being nicked from the car or stage - now heres the killer bit - [b]unless supervised[/b] [/quote] I think there is an amount of reasonability here. No-one can sit and nanny gear - but if you put your gear in the car in view and then naff off for a couple of hours for a pint, then to be honest, I think you are asking for trouble anyway, unless you live in the quaint village of honestville! As for gear being left on stage - a stage manager, bar staff or venue security appointed to look after - 'keep an eye on gear' I understand is enough. This varies from insurer to insurer, but check before you take out a policy. Dropping your gear off in an empty venue and no one knowing the gear is likely to mean that your insurance won't cover either. - I was with Pavillion for a while and they stated that if gear was in a parked, secured vehicle with items out of sight and unrecognisable then they would cover in the case of a break in. This was lucky for me as I have an estate car with a pull over boot cover and some heavy blankets that could disguise the same of any guitar shaped bags. They were happy with this and therefore I was covered. If you have a van with blacked out windows and no markings to suggest it is a band wagon, then , again you are covered. Advertising 'Bob's Disco' down the side of the van is probably akin to just writing 'free lucky dip' on the doors. The insurance company probably won't pay out, I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The public liability issues seem quite amazing in the new world order we live in. So much so I wonder should I have liability insurance for a trip to the pub with my other half. Would be a terrible shame if she left her handbag by a chair and someone then tripped over it - claim coming on I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbs Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 My experience of the MU for what its worth. I felt like I had joined the Labour party. The political allegiance towards Milliband and Co is way over the top and exceeds the remit of a Union for musicians IMHO. I'm non political and not interested in supporting any political party and objected to my subs being spent in this way, (to say nothing of receiving all the heavily laden crap about joining some demonstratative march every quarter). Most info concerning contracts etc, can be obtained free via the internet to anyone who can read, (and how many of us are signing multi million dollar recording contracts anyway!). A decent contract solicitor can read and explain the small print for you, if your that lucky, hell you could certainy afford to see one! As for the high annual subscription fee, that would easily pay for cover on any Insurance policy and still leave you with change. In essence as both a pro (and now semi pro bass player), I did not find being a member to be of much use or any benefit. Rant over.☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Orbs' timestamp='1346351425' post='1788250'] A decent contract solicitor can read and explain the small print for you, if your that lucky, hell you could certainy afford to see one! [/quote] That couldn't be further from the truth for most musicians trying to make a living playing original material and looking to get better distribution etc for their music. Most of them don't have 2p to rub together until a few contracts have been signed! At £100+ each time to read over a contract, solicitors are not a great option, but if the MU will do it for free without every band member needing to be a member then you can have them check over everything for piece of mind without worry. The rest of the MU's stuff does not appeal to me at at all - and your experience reinforces my thoughts about what I have read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The MU website state they have 30,000 members - that's a lot of potential contracts for MU staff to review and advise upon, even if only 10% of members avail themselves of the service. Regarding the political levy, the MU website states: "[i]If you do not wish to contribute to the MU Political Fund, you have the right to opt in or out of paying the levy whenever you want.[/i]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Apart from all the benefits of insurance etc which have been mentioned above, they do a big job every year negotiating minimum contract fee increases for theatre/shows/TV [Including holiday pay] and Studio broadcast/recording rates. Teaching guideline rates, arranging and Orchestrating rates, and a few other things. So for many on this site the benefits of the MU don't seem much, but there are a few on Basschat that do benefit from the MU. Garry Edited August 31, 2012 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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