Technofret AdvancedFretLevelling tool

[bremen]

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOFRET-Advanced-Fret-Leveling-System-/180677811948?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2310229183993886361"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOFRET-Advan...229183993886361[/url]

[xilddx]

[quote name='bremen' post='1351318' date='Aug 25 2011, 01:51 PM'][url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOFRET-Advanced-Fret-Leveling-System-/180677811948?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2310229183993886361"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOFRET-Advan...229183993886361[/url][/quote]
Never seen it before but I like the look of that!

I have used the Ginex system with good results.

[paul h]

[quote name='silddx' post='1352644' date='Aug 26 2011, 03:54 PM']Never seen it before but I like the look of that!

I have used the Ginex system with good results.[/quote]

+1 on the Ginex system. I use it on all my basses now. But this looks like an advance on the same idea. Very tempting.

[xilddx]

[quote name='paul h' post='1352652' date='Aug 26 2011, 04:00 PM']+1 on the Ginex system. I use it on all my basses now. But this looks like an advance on the same idea. Very tempting.[/quote]
I reckon you get a perfect level with the Technofret, then a light dress with the Ginex would be good for most normal situations. I've done a refret before, fret dressing is a skill that takes practice and patience, so I'd stick with the Ginex for that, a light dress is probably all that's need after levelling anyway.

[Doctor J]

I tried the ginex but didn't think it was quite up to it, I thought it was just too short and certainly with crowning I thought it was poor. I bought a diamond crowning file from Stewart McDonald instead and just use 10" block of wood and fine grade sandpaper, which I'm much happier with, get much better results.

[Ancient Mariner]

I've used the Ginex system a number of times - it made an amazing difference on a cheap bass I bought a couple of years back, and it's also been good with a various guitars. However it does require a lot of care to remove material evenly and not overdo it.

I'd be concerned with that about getting the FB flat enough to begin with. Also worth being aware that (for guitars at least) the S shape is desirable, with a bit of drop-off required above the 17th fret

Edited August 26, 2011 by Ancient Mariner

[pushifier]

I have got the technofret system. Works fast and it is so easy to do. And most of all you get a buzz free bass!
Most happy with this system!

[Vibrating G String]

"In use, the channel flange is slipped under each string in turn, while the instrument is strung up to tension, and gently moved back and forth until every fret shows abrasion."

Never level a fretboard under tension. It should be leveled without tension so the string tension add some relief.

[murrmac123]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1315293311' post='1363733']
Never level a fretboard under tension. It should be leveled without tension so the string tension add some relief.
[/quote]

With respect, you could not be more wrong.

The fretboard should be brought to straightness under tension by means of truss rod adjustment.(straightness being defined as the first fret, the fret over the truss - rod anchor, and the mid point all being co -linear.) .

The frets should then be dressed with the neck under string tension, and you then slacken off the trussrod to give the required amount of relief. Doing it this way absolutely [b]guarantees[/b] that the instrument will play cleanly with no fret buzz. as long as the rest of the set-up is correct.( Obviously you still need to sand a fall-off in the upper frets)

Doing it your way (presumably you slacken all the strings and then straighten the neck with the trussrod prior to leveling the frets) will indeed work adequately in the majority of cases, but there will be a significant number of cases where it doesn't work, because the neck is behaving differently than it should when subjected to string tension, ie it is not curving as predictably as one would wish, resulting in fret buzz. even after the frets have been leveled. Every guitar tech with any degree of experience will have encountered this phenomenon. The solution, as I said above, is to level the frets with the neck under full string tension.

There is indeed a situation where dressing frets with the strings off is advisable, and that is when the frets are badly worn and grooved, but the customer just wants them dressed but does not want a refret. In that case, it is a [b]lot [/b]quicker to do a conventional fret dress with the strings off , and hope for the best. If it works, (and it probably will) and there is no fret buzz, then well and good.

If there[b] is [/b]any fret buzz, then the only solution is to redress the frets with the neck under tension. That is why it is called the Advanced Fret Leveling System.

You pays your money and you takes your choice ...

[henry norton]

Am I missing something here? Both these systems look like glorified sanding sticks. Flame away.....

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1319290180' post='1412314']Am I missing something here? Both these systems look like glorified sanding sticks. Flame away.....[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. My understanding of the Plek system is that it sets up your neck the way you want it, dresses your frets etc.

This looks, to me, like a sanding stick which, at best, is stage one of a manual Plek service.

[henry norton]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1319293826' post='1412376']

My thoughts exactly. My understanding of the Plek system is that it sets up your neck the way you want it, dresses your frets etc.

[/quote]
Yeah, although the Plek is quite misunderstood in some respects. It levels your frets, crowns and smooths them but it doesn't adjust your truss rod or smooth off the sharp ends of your frets. It measures the fret levels whilst the guitar is strung but the strings have to be removed before the machine can do the work, it just compensates for the (obvious) change in the bow of the neck once the strings are off. It's hugely expensive for what it does but I guess once you get past a certain number of guitars or basses it makes it worthwhile in comparison to dressing the frets by hand.

There's the rub though, the Technofret is meant to be used while the guitar is strung, yet if you level off the frets while there is a bow in the neck (a proper bow from string tension) it won't play properly. The Plek uses a big computer to compensate for the change in neck bow, whereas the technofret is meant to be mega-flat. Maybe I just read it wrong.

[henry norton]

[quote name='murrmac123' timestamp='1319285653' post='1412243']

With respect, you could not be more wrong.

The fretboard should be brought to straightness under tension by means of truss rod adjustment.(straightness being defined as the first fret, the fret over the truss - rod anchor, and the mid point all being co -linear.) .

The frets should then be dressed with the neck under string tension, and you then slacken off the trussrod to give the required amount of relief. Doing it this way absolutely [b]guarantees[/b] that the instrument will play cleanly with no fret buzz. as long as the rest of the set-up is correct.( Obviously you still need to sand a fall-off in the upper frets)

Doing it your way (presumably you slacken all the strings and then straighten the neck with the trussrod prior to leveling the frets) will indeed work adequately in the majority of cases, but there will be a significant number of cases where it doesn't work, because the neck is behaving differently than it should when subjected to string tension, ie it is not curving as predictably as one would wish, resulting in fret buzz. even after the frets have been leveled. Every guitar tech with any degree of experience will have encountered this phenomenon. The solution, as I said above, is to level the frets with the neck under full string tension.

There is indeed a situation where dressing frets with the strings off is advisable, and that is when the frets are badly worn and grooved, but the customer just wants them dressed but does not want a refret. In that case, it is a [b]lot [/b]quicker to do a conventional fret dress with the strings off , and hope for the best. If it works, (and it probably will) and there is no fret buzz, then well and good.

If there[b] is [/b]any fret buzz, then the only solution is to redress the frets with the neck under tension. That is why it is called the Advanced Fret Leveling System.

You pays your money and you takes your choice ...
[/quote]
Ahh, I think I see what Technofret are getting at now! The truss rod needs to be adjusted to make the board dead flat before you use this sanding stick. Obviously I didn't read [i]your post[/i] properly I'm not sure levelling frets under string tension is just more snake oil - if the frets are moving when the neck bows under string tension they aren't fitted properly and will need some work done to them before they're levelled.

[essexbasscat]

Interesting thread this

[Kiwi]

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1319298582' post='1412466']
Yeah, although the Plek is quite misunderstood in some respects. It levels your frets, crowns and smooths them but it doesn't adjust your truss rod or smooth off the sharp ends of your frets. It measures the fret levels whilst the guitar is strung but the strings have to be removed before the machine can do the work, it just compensates for the (obvious) change in the bow of the neck once the strings are off. It's hugely expensive for what it does but I guess once you get past a certain number of guitars or basses it makes it worthwhile in comparison to dressing the frets by hand.
[/quote]
The Plek system doesn't compensate for how the neck bends differently along its own length. I posted a conversation I had a number of years ago with Chandlers in Kew about their machine as I was planning on having my Smith 6 done.

I think the best results will vary according to how low you like the action on your instrument. For those who can slip a pound coin under their strings at the 12th fret, they probably don't need a lot of precision in the levelling. They could probably be happy with a fret job with the neck under truss rod tension alone.

For those who like their action buzz free and a gnats whisker above the 12th fret, more care is needed to shape the frets flat when the neck is subject to EXACTLY the same tension as when fully strung with the string gauge of choice.

EDIT: But you may also have to make neck adjustments more often if the neck isn't stiff (as is often the case with growly sounding basses). Its horses for courses, not every bass player out there will need that level of precision so I think there's a risk of people believing there's only one kind of fret job when its more a case of not spending more money than you have to to get the result you're happy with.

Best results I could imagine are in line with murmac's suggestion, ie. levelling the frets under string tension BUT using a jig that simulates string tension like this:

[url="http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Jigs_and_fixtures/Erlewine_Neck_Jig.html"]http://www.stewmac.c...e_Neck_Jig.html[/url]

Its an expensive investment if you only a couple of basses though.

So the technofret approach seems an interesting and cost effective alternative despite being a bit fiddlier than using the neck jig.

(I'd probably have a chat to a local engineering company and see if they had any offcuts of extruded L-beam aluminium that I could customise if straight enough...)

[murrmac123]

I am amazed that a bass forum would generate so much discussion about leveling frets under string tension.

Maybe I should manufacture a longer version specifically for bass players ....

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319299834' post='1412479']
Okay whats different between a straight neck without strings and a straight one with??

I seen somewhere a guy use a long plane blade out of course but with wet and dry double sided sticky taped to the bottom to level frets.

Except for taking the strings off and having to go under them one at a time how is this different?
[/quote]

I am assuming that by "long plane blade" you mean a HSS knife which is inserted into the cutter block of a planer (or as our American cousins would call it, a "jointer". If this is not what you mean , then my apologies.

If the face of the knife [b]is[/b] in fact dead level and flat , then obviously this will do the job perfectly (although you do run the risk of slicing off your fingertips) . Most planer knives, however, are slightly concave along their length, although they register straight and true once they are clamped into the cutter block. Basically, any surface which is guaranteed flat and straight will do the job. What I offer is a surface which is guaranteed flat and straight, and which will operate effectively while the strings are up to tension.

Over the years, I have come to realise that there are three topics which cause the most misunderstanding among guitarists.

These are, in ascending order of mis-comprehension :

A: conical ( AKA compound radius ) fretboards
B : fret leveling under string tension
C nut compensation.

Thankfully we are only on level 2 ...

The basic fact of the matter is that when you subject a slender column such as a guitar neck to a large degree of compression ( the strings exercise compression on the neck , they do not exercise tension ) and when you then try to counteract this compression by a counter- active force such as a truss rod, the inevitable result is a S shaped curve. That's the way it is, it's basic mechanics, as expounded by Euler hundreds of years ago, nothing has changed.

This S shaped curve may be (in fact almost certainly will be) undetectable to the eye, but it will most certainly be detectable to the ear, because unless corrective measures are taken, there will undoubtedly be fret buzz.

The corrective measures consist of leveling the frets, this can be done with the strings off, or the strings on, under tension.

Leveling with the strings off, and with the neck straightened, will work OK in the majority of cases.

Leveling with the strings on, up to tension, will work perfectly 100% of the time.

The crux of the matter is that the fretboard will be slightly S shaped, but the tops of the frets will be totally co -planar.

You then incorporate your desired relief by adjusting the truss rod.

Hope this makes sense.

[murrmac123]

Thank you , Kiwi, a very perceptive post.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1319319485' post='1412763']

I think the best results will vary according to how low you like the action on your instrument. For those who can slip a pound coin under their strings at the 12th fret, they probably don't need a lot of precision in the levelling. They could probably be happy with a fret job with the neck under truss rod tension alone.

For those who like their action buzz free and a gnats whisker above the 12th fret, more care is needed to shape the frets flat when the neck is subject to EXACTLY the same tension as when fully strung with the string gauge of choice.

[/quote]

Exactly what I have been saying all along.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='murrmac123' timestamp='1319320483' post='1412773']
I am amazed that a bass forum would generate so much discussion about leveling frets under string tension.
[/quote]
Because so much is charged for doing the service by guitar techs who don't understand how string tension is a more critical component of set up on basses than it is on guitars. So they'll often just tell you that the action is as low as the instrument will allow when the real reason is that they just don't know basses very well.

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319320898' post='1412781']
They put the necks under string pressure. So it should allow for changes along the necks length.
[/quote]
Yes it compensates for neck curve in some form, but assumes that that the neck curve is consistent along its length. Murmac is correct about necks often assuming s-bends. The plek system doesn't compensate for this or the degree to which the neck thickness and width affects flexibility. We're talking fractions of millimetres here, but that's all it takes to make buzz on a low action set up.

The plek system is an expensive white elephant...at least in the opinion of Chandlers.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='murrmac123' timestamp='1319285653' post='1412243']

With respect, you could not be more wrong.

The fretboard should be brought to straightness under tension by means of truss rod adjustment.(straightness being defined as the first fret, the fret over the truss - rod anchor, and the mid point all being co -linear.) .

The frets should then be dressed with the neck under string tension, and you then slacken off the trussrod to give the required amount of relief. Doing it this way absolutely [b]guarantees[/b] that the instrument will play cleanly with no fret buzz. as long as the rest of the set-up is correct.( Obviously you still need to sand a fall-off in the upper frets)

Doing it your way (presumably you slacken all the strings and then straighten the neck with the trussrod prior to leveling the frets) will indeed work adequately in the majority of cases, but there will be a significant number of cases where it doesn't work, because the neck is behaving differently than it should when subjected to string tension, ie it is not curving as predictably as one would wish, resulting in fret buzz. even after the frets have been leveled. Every guitar tech with any degree of experience will have encountered this phenomenon. The solution, as I said above, is to level the frets with the neck under full string tension.

There is indeed a situation where dressing frets with the strings off is advisable, and that is when the frets are badly worn and grooved, but the customer just wants them dressed but does not want a refret. In that case, it is a [b]lot [/b]quicker to do a conventional fret dress with the strings off , and hope for the best. If it works, (and it probably will) and there is no fret buzz, then well and good.

If there[b] is [/b]any fret buzz, then the only solution is to redress the frets with the neck under tension. That is why it is called the Advanced Fret Leveling System.

You pays your money and you takes your choice ...
[/quote]
If you level your fretboard with the strings under tension you get a flat board with no relief. But I'm sure your fake science will sell some expensive sanding sticks to suckers who fall for it. The guitar world is filled with scams like these, I'm not going to help you sell crap to idiots.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1319290180' post='1412314']
Am I missing something here? Both these systems look like glorified sanding sticks. Flame away.....
[/quote]You're not missing a thing.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1319321763' post='1412788']The plek system is an expensive white elephant...at least in the opinion of Chandlers.[/quote]My opinion too, along with compensated nuts and the Buzz Feiten system. A good pitch to people who don't understand science but have heard some of the words before can be a very profitable thing. It's very important in these campaigns to get people to agree with you publicly as once they do they will defend your scam to the death as they have become invested in it. And this is coming from someone who creates these campaigns based on this psychology. People would rather be ripped off than wrong, I make money on this principal

Edited October 22, 2011 by Vibrating G String

[discreet]

Hey Kiwi, is it your lunchtime, or what? I'm confused.

[Kiwi]

You're not so foncused. NZ time is 12 hours ahead, apart from Daylight saving when its 13 hours ahead for a brief period.

[murrmac123]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319324411' post='1412814']
If you level your fretboard with the strings under tension you get a flat board with no relief.
[/quote]

Absoutely correct, that is precisely what is supposed to happen after leveling.

Remember, you already [b]tightened [/b]the truss rod prior to leveling, in order to make the neck straight.

After leveling, you then [b]slacken [/b]it off a tad, and that is what gives you the required relief.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319327593' post='1412843']
My opinion too, along with compensated nuts and the Buzz Feiten system. A good pitch to people who don't understand science but have heard some of the words before can be a very profitable thing. It's very important in these campaigns to get people to agree with you publicly as once they do they will defend your scam to the death as they have become invested in it. And this is coming from someone who creates these campaigns based on this psychology. People would rather be ripped off than wrong, I make money on this principal
[/quote]
Well it probably works ok for mid-level mass producers. You don't expect much in the way of setup and finish with a cheapo guitar and if you're buying something high end or bespoke I would want my bass finished and set up by an artisan, not a machine, but there are plenty of reasons the process should be automated for mid-priced instruments. I suppose that's where Chandlers made a mistake, being led to believe customers would prefer a machine to set their guitar up rather than a trained technician.