610/810 lack of market/ practicality

[AsterL]

So whilst looking on a infamous bidding website, I've found several absolute bargains on 810s and 610s at the moment.
Its quite funny seeing as they are the most expensive to buy out of any cabs, yet at the moment have no resale value what so ever. Why do you guys think this is?

And on a sidenote, (this my seem like a silly question) But how practical are 810/610s to move and live with?
I've never actually gig/seen/moved one before. Are all the horror stories true and is this why they have no resale value?

[Mr. Foxen]

They are heavy and big, take up room so people want them gone. People are too puny an weak to move them any more. Notice how there are no massive muscly ddudes in movies any more, gym toned is apparently enough, they had to pull Arnie and stallone out of beefcake retirement for new movies, kids just don't have the role models to build themselves too, and can barely lift a class A/B head any more, let alone see their enemies driven before them.

[ThomBassmonkey]

They're the most expensive because they cost the most to make, I expect. Lots of companies just don't bother making them, especially in certain ranges.

I've never had to live with one, I did used to use 410s though and they were a pain on their own, I think that if you have an 810 it's likely you'll need a hand any time you want to move it about (I can't imagine loading one into transport on my own, that's before the possibility of stairs at a venue) and you'll need at least a large estate car to fit it, if not a van.

610s are more practical, Dbass on this forum used to have a Mark bass 610 and it wasn't all that bigger or heavier than my 410, I think that they're not as popular as they start to use strange numbers in resistance, if you use 2/4/8 ohm cabs you know where you stand, if you start using fractions, it quickly gets confusing, especially as amp manufacturers round their numbers.

[JTUK]

I am looking for a 610 to use as a large-ish stage cab.

Not sure about the practicalities of it..and I doubt I REALLY need one...but I am keeping my eyes out for one
to compliment my 2x112, and 2x210 rigs. The latter is doing fine atm, tho.

[ThomBassmonkey]

I'd go with 212s over a 610 personally. The convenience of 2 cabs, having an easy resistance rating and less weight outweigh the benefits of a 610, all IMO of course.

Though I must admit, I don't really know what the benefits are from a 610, 410s are loud enough in general and they don't have the height of 810s. It seems like they're all the negatives from both with added resistance oddness for flavour.

[chris_b]

If you're on a stage big enough for an 810 you don't need one. You'll have PA support so a 112 will be loud enough, but the photos won't look so impressive.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Generally true, but I've been on big stages with crap monitors or where the monitor engineer is off his head on whatever his drug of choice is, it's nice to have a bit of beef for your own benefit, so long as you don't screw up the foh mix. That's more to do with elevation IME though, a vertical 4x10 will help as much as an 810 but be lighter, cheaper, more practical and quieter out front whilst still directing the sound at your ears.

[Lozz196]

Never had either, but had a 410 & 210 which I used together, and was very happy with the results. So the 6x10 configuration gets a thumbs-up from me. It`s a nice high stack which you can hear very well, and the plus point was being able to rehearse with the 410, and just bring the 210 along for gigs.

Having had a Marshall 412, which was a great cab, but very difficult to get about without assistance, I wouldn`t look at either a 610 or an 810, based purely on that reason.

[xgsjx]

I think a 6/8x10 would only be louder than 2 vertical 2x10/12s to those standing directly in front of it. The further left or right you go, the quieter it'll be whereas the 2 cab option has a better dispersion & should be louder to those standing off axis than the fridge.

[Muzz]

I lived with an Ampeg 810 for a few years back (pre-castors) when I was young, keen, and had decent lower back strength. It was fantastic for the time I was on stage, and a pain in the arse for the rest. I literally couldn't move it on my own.

I left one band after a storming row, they flounced out of the rehearsal room, I packed up, then I had to sheepishly ask them to give me a hand with the cab into the car...

[AsterL]

Thanks for all the responses guys, very informative as always.

But would you consider it value for money to get one as some are going for the same/cheaper than 210s!
And once they are on castors, can one person manage one?

[xgsjx]

If you can afford 2 2x10s or 2x12s, then it's a better option IMO. More flexible & better dispersion. But, if an 8x10 is what you want, then go for it. You can always flog it & get the 2 cab option later.

[Lozz196]

Think this is going to depend on 2 things really, where you live, and what type of transport you have.

If you live in a house, or ground floor flat, there shouldn`t be any problems getting it in/out of your home.

If you have an estate car, leaning the cab back into the load-space, then tipping it in the rest of the way is do-able on your own.

2nd floor flat, hatchback car, ordinary car with 4 doors & boot - you`ll need assistance every time with these, or be looking at some backache, if you can do it on your own.

Re castors - there shouldn`t be any problem, once its on flat land, with pushing it about. I could with my Marshall, which weighed over 100 lbs. There are some great after-market castors about as well, which can be bought for about £30 - much better than the stock ones.

[Truckstop]

I think as a lot of people know, flat land that is suitable for cabs being rolled is scarce. I used to use a trolley set for my cabs and just gave up bringing them to gigs as they were only ever useful on the actual floor of the venue.

Maybe a cool option would be to buy a very cheap 810 and then rip the speakers out and build your own 410s or any other speaker config and use the shell of the 810 as a very cool wardrobe or storage box.

Truckstop

[JTUK]

On stage they will do the job in a loud band.

I don't think you can get away with little combinations unless you have decent side fills.
I've seen many a vaunted Markbass combo rig with extention cab fail here if my perception of their on-stage sound is anything to go by.
I think they can EQ to be heard but not with a decent sound. Ditto Ampegs Neo combos, GK etc etc ..all of which I've had the misfortune to have to use recently... or rather, I was 'convinced' much against my own judgement

I take 2x210 for decent stages and not many will be able to put through their monitors what I will want to put through
my rig.
If the soundman can promise full range 4 mixes, then I'll consider pairing my rig down, but then that is precisely the sort of gig that the 610 will be for anyway.

I accept carry is the real bug here, of course, and only you can decide if the hoops you have to dance through is worth the few gigs it may get used for.

You have to gauge whether you can get the sound you want from 500watts plus into whatever cabs over powerful drums, keys thro the mon mix, plus gtr who will need to be powerful.

I understand all about letting FOH do the work, but you need to be feeling it on-stage as well with the sound. Making do isn't going to help the out-front performance.

To be able to not INSIST you are mon-mixed with bass, I'd say 750-A into a 610 is the requirement and if you don't have carry issues..which seem to be the main onbjection here..and understandably so, a 610 is great value for money.


For example, a SWR610 snr for less than £400 is great bang for buck... so if you see one, I'm interested...even for that handful of gigs a year.
I agree I couldn't justify spending much more on a specialist stage rig.

[Monckyman]

I`ve spent the last 12 years lifting shifting, wiring and micing up a couple of bands Ampeg 810s and it really is a 2 man job.
Depending on the flight case (what, you want the Tolex to shred in a month?)then it can be harder.
The usual case for these is a live in case, where the front comes off and the cab stays in the rest, that`s the easy one.It has castors obviously, but makes it bigger to store and heavier to carry.
The other case is all lid, which means the cab comes out. Two man job though I can do it on my own with the right balance.
I suppose a Roqsolid cover would be the best compromise.
Once out you still might not think it high enough.One band I work for doesn`t so it goes on the AC30 flight case laid sideways. This gets the top 2 speakers to ear level.
I can do this on my own, but you can hurt yourself if you do it wrong.
Then you need to get your amp up there.
OK with an LMK II but not ok with an Ampeg SVT II. Another 2 man job.
So basically what I`m saying is, if you have a crew, then it`s the best sound ever and gives a nice spread of sound in your zone of the stage.
If you don`t have crew, think again, coz you`ll need a good mate and a van and a bungalow and a very forgiving Mrs.
As an alternative, have a good look at the 410HLF. I`d say they compare very favourably with the bigger cabs, with the advantage of mobility,(I can lift one on my own and put it on top of a flight case.)
Of course, others are aware of this so the price is not so favourable.
MM

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='AsterL' post='1351922' date='Aug 26 2011, 12:52 AM']So whilst looking on a infamous bidding website, I've found several absolute bargains on 810s and 610s at the moment.
Its quite funny seeing as they are the most expensive to buy out of any cabs, yet at the moment have no resale value what so ever. Why do you guys think this is?

[b]And on a sidenote, (this my seem like a silly question) But how practical are 810/610s to move and live with? [/b][/quote]

Its not a sidenote at all, its the answer to your question


[quote name='AsterL' post='1352011' date='Aug 26 2011, 08:57 AM']Thanks for all the responses guys, very informative as always.

But would you consider it value for money to get one as some are going for the same/cheaper than 210s!
[b]And once they are on castors, can one person manage one?[/b][/quote]

Only if you live in a magical land with no stairs, I'm afraid.

[icastle]

The reason they have a poor resale value is that people generally buy them under the 'it was a good idea at the time' banner and are then desperate to sell them off when they realise the practical limitations of having one in your life.

The high prices and limited range supplied by manufacturers is all indicative of a product they are not mass producing to the same level as their smaller cabs - therefore the consumer demand relative to their smaller cabs isn't there.

I reckon they're more of a throwback to the 70's where entire walls of cabs was equated to being 'serious'.

[Gareth Hughes]

My tuppence worth is based on the alternatives. I just played a big open air gig, with Elbow and The Villagers on the bill, and used my two Epifani 1x12 cabs and a Markbass LMK head. My rig was on a flight case about 2 feet off the ground. Master volume was barely at 9 o'clock. Getting the speakers up closer to your head greatly reduces the need for high volume, IME. And I was playing upright too - so not having a huge sound meant little feedback trouble.

[EdwardHimself]

I know what you mean on the impedance issue. However, my amp goes down to 2 ohms so if i want i could get a 6x10 to give me 8 speakers in total or even an 8x10 to give me 10 speakers. Why i would want to do that i don't know. Just for a laugh i suppose. As people have said though, they are bloody heavy and that's probably the main reason resale values are so low- hence why neodymium speaker cabs have always commanded a higher price, even before the start of the "china issue".

Edited August 26, 2011 by EdwardHimself

[dc2009]

I'd get one if I had a roadie to move the fecker for me, for sound and looks.

I remember once asking the guy in Mansons why the brand new looking cab next to me had a S/H tag, mistake etc? Nope, but the bloke who bought it couldn't fit it through his front door :-s

[AsterL]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1352948' date='Aug 26 2011, 07:57 PM']I'd get one if I had a roadie to move the fecker for me, for sound and looks.

I remember once asking the guy in Mansons why the brand new looking cab next to me had a S/H tag, mistake etc? Nope, but the bloke who bought it couldn't fit it through his front door :-s[/quote]


Well I suppose goes to show impractical they are!

[Monckyman]

So is a Bee, but both are beautiful things.

[icastle]

[quote name='Monckyman' post='1353092' date='Aug 26 2011, 09:49 PM']So is a Bee, but both are beautiful things.
[/quote]

I thought a bee was just a fly with a bad earth...

[ern500evo]

If it's right for your situation then go for it! For what it's worth, i've taken my ashdown 8x10 to gig's on my own in a Ford Focus so transporting it isn't as difficult as you might think. You're always gonna get the "I've got a 1x10 markbass combo which i can fit in a rucksack and take it to gigs on my unicycle and it sounds a million times fatter/louder/better than any prehistoric 8x10" argument but it's all about personal choice. And the fact everyone is going lightweight means there's some great bargain big cabs out there.