Groove

[Pete Academy]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I've read an interview with Victor in the latest BP mag and he makes a valid comment about being able to groove.

I've always maintained that, despite having great knowledge of theory and technique, the most important aspect of playing bass is being able to play in time and groove.

Here's what Victor says:

"You don't hear James Brown sing and think about his technique or his theory knowledge. It's only well-studied musicians who pay attention to that. The general public doesn't. So what do they care about? What makes a million people want to listen to you? Is it your technique? Is it your theory knowledge? No. If you want to appeal to the masses, you've got to touch them in their hearts - you've got to make their heads bop and their feet move. You gotta leave them feeling something. You have to touch them on the inside."

Anyone agree/disagree?

[pietruszka]

Agree. 100%.




Dan

[Len_derby]

I think most people would agree with that quotation.

The discussion point is probably[i] how[/i] do musicians get to the point at which they can acheive it?

[Mike]

Totally agree! don't really listen to his stuff much despite owning a lot of it, but if there's one thing Vic does before anything, it's groove HARD!

Have you heard "Hero" from his live in America CD? No flashy bass playing, but a beautiful song with impeccable bass groove.

[Stingray5]

Yep, I'd go along with that, Pete.
I've pretty much always gone along with the adage:
"It's not what you play, it's the way that you play it".
(That goes for gear, too).

[Len_derby]

[quote name='Stingray5' post='1353079' date='Aug 26 2011, 09:41 PM']"It's not what you play, it's the way that you play it".[/quote]

And it's not the notes you play, it's the ones you don't play.

I'm at this moment listening to George Porter Jnr. playing with Jon Cleary, Jon Schofield and Rikki Fatah on the album 'Piety Street'. Sometimes the bass line is barely there, but it's just so right.

[BottomE]

Can't argue with that.

[steve-soar]

"You have to touch them on the inside."



Good grief!!!

[Stingray5]

[quote name='Len_derby' post='1353107' date='Aug 26 2011, 09:59 PM']And it's not the notes you play, it's the ones you don't play.

I'm at this moment listening to George Porter Jnr. playing with Jon Cleary, Jon Schofield and Rikki Fatah on the album 'Piety Street'. Sometimes the bass line is barely there, but it's just so right.[/quote]
Absotively!
Playing Reggae years ago taught me about leaving holes.

[chrismuzz]

More wise words from a true bass guru! I've really let the technical side of my playing slip back a bit while i focus on being able to groove a bit more. Playing one note for 5 minutes and making it sound interesting is more important that playing a hundred notes in 5 seconds and it being boring

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='chrismuzz' post='1353233' date='Aug 27 2011, 01:27 AM']More wise words from a true bass guru! I've really let the technical side of my playing slip back a bit while i focus on being able to groove a bit more. Playing one note for 5 minutes and making it sound interesting is more important that playing a hundred notes in 5 seconds and it being boring[/quote]

Indeed.
When I listen to old blink182 stuff, it's strange how interesting they make 4 chords sound. Particularly on Carousel, the best opening bassline in that genre, ever.

Part of it for me is having fun, then it starts to sound fun. Hopefully for everyone else too.

[grahamd]

On the money for sure. A one note bassline played with real feel says more to people than some technical soulless exercise

[Lozz196]

VW is spot on. Technique is great, but some songs are so perfect they sound sterile.

Give me a song with feeling and oomph in, over one with amazing technique & perfection any day.

[Doddy]

It's easy for someone like Victor to talk about groove,because he's at the stage where his technique
and his knowledge are so deep that he can just play and let it out,he can just concentrate on making it feel
good,the rest of it has become second nature.....and think that is an important thing.Victor doesn't need to
talk about his technique anymore,it's already very well documented,he can now just talk about the music.
It's all well and good talking about 'groove',but I think that technique and harmonic knowledge are equally as important-none of them are mutually exclusive.

[risingson]

Technique is a redundant thing if you're not contributing anything to the music you perform, in fact it will make your music sound thoroughly conceited. I don't especially enjoy Victor's music but he is always on the money with these kinds of comments and clearly understands music to a very high level.

[Paul Clifton]

"You can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket" indeed.

[urb]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1354051' date='Aug 28 2011, 01:51 AM']It's easy for someone like Victor to talk about groove,because he's at the stage where his technique
and his knowledge are so deep that he can just play and let it out,he can just concentrate on making it feel
good,the rest of it has become second nature.....and think that is an important thing.Victor doesn't need to
talk about his technique anymore,it's already very well documented,he can now just talk about the music.
It's all well and good talking about 'groove',but I think that technique and harmonic knowledge are equally as important-none of them are mutually exclusive.[/quote]

Totally but a lot of supremely technical and theorehtically knowledgable players - on ANY instrument - often lose sight of that primal quality of communicating with an audience - I've seen so many advanced players that leave me wanting more emotionally or in the groove department - VW is certainly a great example of an advanced player with an advanced awareness of exactly how to reach an audience - be it with 1 note or 100... but like you say none of this 'being a good musician' stuff is mutally exclusive... it's all relevant and required to reach the next level.

[spongebob]

Give me feel over technique any day of the week...

[witterth]

I used to think Victor Wooten was Ok 'till "I saw" this......"yesterday"
[url="http://youtu.be/L_h9eQ15CIs"]http://youtu.be/L_h9eQ15CIs[/url]
Bloody hell. pass me that bucket Eugene, I think I'm going to hurrrlll.....

Edited August 28, 2011 by witterth

[retrohelix]

[quote name='witterth' post='1354388' date='Aug 28 2011, 03:32 PM']I used to think Victor Wooten was Ok 'till "I saw" this......
[url="http://youtu.be/L_h9eQ15CIs"]http://youtu.be/L_h9eQ15CIs[/url]
Bloody hell[/quote]

Wish I never saw/heard that.

[witterth]

[quote name='retrohelix' post='1354406' date='Aug 28 2011, 03:47 PM']Wish I never saw/heard that.[/quote]
yep sorry about that, though not as sorry as Vic should be.

[chrismuzz]

Interesting!

[Skol303]

[quote name='grahamd' post='1353332' date='Aug 27 2011, 09:42 AM']On the money for sure. A one note bassline played with real feel says more to people than some technical soulless exercise[/quote]

Sure. But then a technical exercise played with real feel says more to people than a one note bassline played without soul, no?

The thing with this debate is that it always ends up along the lines of:

"You can't learn groove/funk/whatever, you have to 'feel' it" and "technical ability is no match for soul".

Both of which statements are complete ****ocks, to be honest. Why? Because technical ability and soul/groove are not mutually exclusive. You don't just have one at the expense of the other... you can actually be technically brilliant and have oodles of groove; likewise you can be technically retarded and have no soul whatsoever... or like most musicians, you probably lie somewhere between these extremes.

I hate to say it, but the technical vs soulful argument is fundamentally flawed. It's just not that simple, and the reason this debate keeps cropping up is because people want to boil it down to just one or the other - technical or soulful - when the reality is always a mixture of both.

As with most things, people who are very technically able often make it look easy. That doesn't mean they're gifted by the God of Groove. It just means they probably invested hours/years of laborious practice to get to where they're at.

[urb]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1354439' date='Aug 28 2011, 04:12 PM']Sure. But then a technical exercise played with real feel says more to people than a one note bassline played without soul, no?

The thing with this debate is that it always ends up along the lines of:

"You can't learn groove/funk/whatever, you have to 'feel' it" and "technical ability is no match for soul".

Both of which statements are complete ****ocks, to be honest. Why? Because technical ability and soul/groove are not mutually exclusive. You don't just have one at the expense of the other... you can actually be technically brilliant and have oodles of groove; likewise you can be technically retarded and have no soul whatsoever... or like most musicians, you probably lie somewhere between these extremes.

I hate to say it, but the technical vs soulful argument is fundamentally flawed. It's just not that simple, and the reason this debate keeps cropping up is because people want to boil it down to just one or the other - technical or soulful - when the reality is always a mixture of both.

As with most things, people who are very technically able often make it look easy. That doesn't mean they're gifted by the God of Groove. It just means they probably invested hours/years of laborious practice to get to where they're at.[/quote]

+1 man spot on

[urb]

[quote name='witterth' post='1354411' date='Aug 28 2011, 03:51 PM']yep sorry about that, though not as sorry as Vic should be.[/quote]

Mmmm, more Vic bashing - kind of the default setting for the web