Sound

[funkypenguin]

Something a bassist said to me last weekend while i was playing at a charity gig for Help for Heroes got me thinking...

I was chatting to said bassist after my band finished our slot, and we came around to gear and sound. He mentioned he liked the sounds i was getting and said he'd never given too much though to sound/tone before. We then talked for a while about EQ, fingers, rig, effects etc. (Phil if you're on here anywhere, you were great to talk bass with, and a great player to boot!! )

Ive come across this before and have always found it somewhat strange (meaning no offence) that they wernt giving much thought to their sound, as ive always thought that sound is right up there with time and feel as part of your communication with the audience, i.e its part of your musical personality. My early musical training/education took place (and part of it continues to) as a trumpet player in a classical environment, and was taught from day one that sound is one of the most important parts of your playing. Say what you like about the classical world, but the players sound is something that i feel is central to their making music. Do you feel your sound is that important, or not? if not, why not.

Discuss

Edited August 28, 2011 by funkypenguin

[bubinga5]

not sure of your point, but i think generally the only bass sound that really gets any ears is from the bassist....

[dc2009]

Last two gigs I've done were through someone else's amp and a) I didn't want to change it too much, and b ) I couldn't hear what the hell was going on bass tone wise anyway...

[risingson]

When I sit down in in a music store to try out a bass guitar, I often realise after a while of noodling round and thinking "yeh this bass sounds great" that it is a totally moot point what the bass sounds like by itself because I play in a 5 piece band and what I need from a bass guitar is for it to sit nicely in the mix. Of course, I would probably guess that for 80-90% of people that go into a guitar store with a view to purchasing a new guitar/bass, this is not what they take into consideration when they buy a new instrument. They just want it to sound good there and then, which is understandable.

I do care what I sound like, but I try and remind myself that I'm the bass player and for the most part what I need is a purely functional and usable sound that will work well with the rest of my band, and that sound will always be something thick and substantial.

[Spike Vincent]

Sound is vital.How can anyone not care about what they sound like?

[dc2009]

[quote name='risingson' post='1354894' date='Aug 29 2011, 01:05 AM']When I sit down in in a music store to try out a bass guitar, I often realise after a while of noodling round and thinking "yeh this bass sounds great" that it is a totally moot point what the bass sounds like by itself because I play in a 5 piece band and what I need from a bass guitar is for it to sit nicely in the mix. Of course, I would probably guess that for 80-90% of people that go into a guitar store with a view to purchasing a new guitar/bass, this is not what they take into consideration when they buy a new instrument. They just want it to sound good there and then, which is understandable.

I do care what I sound like, but I try and remind myself that I'm the bass player and for the most part what I need is a purely functional and usable sound that will work well with the rest of my band, and that sound will always be something thick and substantial.[/quote]

Great point, but I own about five basses or so, and there is only one that gets used with the band (a different one for the acoustic sets, but those are rare) - it was purchased for it's place in the mix as you have described. The rest of them are because I like the look, sound and playability of them (not in that order at all).

I would also say that I tend to dislike one-trick pony basses. I would think twice about a bass that had minimal tonal variety if I wanted to buy it for a band. Even if the tone is right for your band, you may get to some venues where it just doesn't cut the mustard due to circumstances beyond your control. I think tonal variety is important, though a preamp with various presets can be a way around this if the bass is tonally fairly limited.

[bubinga5]

i like a good tone.. but in the greater context of music,few care about your tone... but a great tone makes me want to play more

[Doctor J]

There are people out there who don't know how to set up their bass and some who don't even know how to change their strings. Some people just play and don't worry about the technical side. Personally, I can be almost anal about some aspects of it but each to their own, I suppose, your average punter just hears the band as a whole without distinguishing the individual components so as long as the player is comfortable with what's going on it's all good.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1354899' date='Aug 29 2011, 01:07 AM']Sound is vital.How can anyone not care about what they sound like?[/quote]
But it's completely subjective isn't it?
What some people think is a great tone others will hate. I was at a jam session the other month where the house bass player was using a Precision through an SVT & I thought it sounded bloody awful - boomy, farty & indistinct. There were other players there who were wetting themselves with delight over it though. Doubtless those same players would hate the clarity & definition of My EBS combo & Zon basses.

There are also varying degrees of "caring" about your sound. I've never obsessed about it like some people do on here - the amount of gear that people go through in the quest for the mythical "great tone" never fails to amaze me.

I've only had four amps/combos in 32 years of playing, and the reasons I sold one to buy the next were all mainly practical reasons & had little to do with the sound.

[Dubs]

Sounds is quite important to me, which is why it annoys the sh*t out of me when my drummer takes all the mid out of my bass and boosts the 30hz - 60hz region when he's mixing our recordings. A couple of the latest are heinous crimes against clarity and definition...

[JTUK]

Majorly important, IMO. Our drummer is currently raving about my sound and I take this as a compliment as his kits always sounds great and therefore I trust his sense of sound and what he wants/needs to hear.
Some people can tune them and some REALLY can't
so all I have to do is position my sound to compliment his. That means I don't obsure his kick drum but for my tastes, I have to have it audiable and playabable to my style and preference.
The fact that he rates it as the best sound is pleasing as it means we are half way to a good section straightaway without even playing.

I am often bemused or laugh about people getting obsessed with mids to cut through and then f*** the sound out of sight from a collective band sound POV.
The bass needs a sound that the player can handle...and mids can be very hard and harsh unless you are really on it, technique-wise.
Plus it doesn't help in seperation..etc etc I think people look to mids as a saviour when it can be anything but.....
The whole band needs to sit down and check sonically their sound in the mix...and we have been round LH in the keys before, but you are seriously missing a simple trick if the sound is poor in the first instance

The number of times where a bass will obiterate the drums ..mostly..is staggering if my last weekend of watching gigs is anything to go by. These guy HAVE to play compressed but the fact that they can't hear the damage and set up their sound in the first place, also means they have no chance of using compression...

Poor sound...=poor band, pretty much.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1354996' date='Aug 29 2011, 09:21 AM']my drummer...
when he's mixing our recordings...[/quote]

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1355010' date='Aug 29 2011, 09:45 AM']Majorly important, IMO. Our drummer is currently raving about my sound and I take this as a compliment as his kits always sounds great and therefore I trust his sense of sound and what he wants/needs to hear.
Some people can tune them and some REALLY can't
so all I have to do is position my sound to compliment his. That means I don't obsure his kick drum but for my tastes, I have to have it audiable and playabable to my style and preference.
The fact that he rates it as the best sound is pleasing as it means we are half way to a good section straightaway without even playing.

I am often bemused or laugh about people getting obsessed with mids to cut through and then f*** the sound out of sight from a collective band sound POV.
The bass needs a sound that the player can handle...and mids can be very hard and harsh unless you are really on it, technique-wise.
Plus it doesn't help in seperation..etc etc I think people look to mids as a saviour when it can be anything but.....
The whole band needs to sit down and check sonically their sound in the mix...and we have been round LH in the keys before, but you are seriously missing a simple trick if the sound is poor in the first instance

The number of times where a bass will obiterate the drums ..mostly..is staggering if my last weekend of watching gigs is anything to go by. These guy HAVE to play compressed but the fact that they can't hear the damage and set up their sound in the first place, also means they have no chance of using compression...

Poor sound...=poor band, pretty much.[/quote]


A number of very good points here

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='RhysP' post='1354982' date='Aug 29 2011, 09:01 AM']But it's completely subjective isn't it?
What some people think is a great tone others will hate. I was at a jam session the other month where the house bass player was using a Precision through an SVT & I thought it sounded bloody awful - boomy, farty & indistinct. There were other players there who were wetting themselves with delight over it though. Doubtless those same players would hate the clarity & definition of My EBS combo & Zon basses.

There are also varying degrees of "caring" about your sound. I've never obsessed about it like some people do on here - the amount of gear that people go through in the quest for the mythical "great tone" never fails to amaze me.

I've only had four amps/combos in 32 years of playing, and the reasons I sold one to buy the next were all mainly practical reasons & had little to do with the sound.[/quote]

All of this I agree with

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='RhysP' post='1354982' date='Aug 29 2011, 09:01 AM']But it's completely subjective isn't it?
What some people think is a great tone others will hate. I was at a jam session the other month where the house bass player was using a Precision through an SVT & I thought it sounded bloody awful - boomy, farty & indistinct. There were other players there who were wetting themselves with delight over it though. Doubtless those same players would hate the clarity & definition of My EBS combo & Zon basses.

There are also varying degrees of "caring" about your sound. I've never obsessed about it like some people do on here - the amount of gear that people go through in the quest for the mythical "great tone" never fails to amaze me.

I've only had four amps/combos in 32 years of playing, and the reasons I sold one to buy the next were all mainly practical reasons & had little to do with the sound.[/quote]


Very true,sound is subjective,I go for a sound I like,the rest of the band like,and one that works in the context of the band.I usually get compliments on how good I sound ( Suppose those who hate it keep their gobs shut) but to not care at all what any instrument sounds like is an enathema to me.

[BigRedX]

A good musician tailors their sound to suit the song and what the other (good) musicians are doing.

[janmaat]

I believe the OP has a very good point

in classical training, "sound" is something YOU do rather than your instrument, which ENABLES you to do it.

It is well true that loads of rock musicians, and particularly the gear heads among them, think about gear
or EQ settings when it comes to sound.

Truth of the matter is that the most important factors to your sound is your playing technique and the volume
settings in a band.

[Dubs]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1355210' date='Aug 29 2011, 01:31 PM']A good musician tailors their sound to suit the song and what the other (good) musicians are doing.[/quote]

To a certain extent, but not massively.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1355207' date='Aug 29 2011, 01:28 PM']....but to not care at all what any instrument sounds like is an anathema to me.[/quote]
It's not that I don't care about my sound, it's just that I've played enough different basses through enough different amps over the last 30+ years to realise that I sound pretty much the same whatever I'm using.
I'm not going to spend countless hours pondering over different pickup & preamp combinations or whatever, because the difference to me will be fairly miniscule - I find that the old law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty rapidly when you take things to this level. You also tend to be permanently unhappy with your sound & wasting money on gear that you don't keep for more than a few weeks.

I'd rather just say "That sounds OK" & play the f***ing thing.

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='RhysP' post='1355276' date='Aug 29 2011, 02:38 PM']It's not that I don't care about my sound, it's just that I've played enough different basses through enough different amps over the last 30+ years to realise that I sound pretty much the same whatever I'm using.
I'm not going to spend countless hours pondering over different pickup & preamp combinations or whatever, because the difference to me will be fairly miniscule - I find that the old law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty rapidly when you take things to this level. You also tend to be permanently unhappy with your sound & wasting money on gear that you don't keep for more than a few weeks.

I'd rather just say "That sounds OK" & play the f***ing thing. [/quote]


Agreed.I'll usually settle for "That's close enough" rather than give birth to live kittens worrying about perfection,but I do have to get close enough.

[Blademan_98]

As long as it's loud, it's good

Seriously though, I like a clean bass sound that sits well with the band.

On the accoustic sets, I push the bass and roll off the treble as that belongs to the guitar.

In the band, I try and stay low and play LOUD......

Edited August 29, 2011 by Blademan_98

[Monckyman]

I`ll always remember after a Crazy Cavan rockabilly gig in Manchester, I was 15 and my guitarist was obsessed with their icepick in the brain guitar sound and couldn`t wait to ask what strings he used.
So after the gig we pushed through the sweaty throng and managed to pop the question,bearing in mind this could affect our whole tone, it could be the breakthrough we were looking for, THAT sound,.. for US!!!
"Oh", sez he of the magic tone,"I use any old f***ing strings see".
As I led away a deeply uncomprehending guitarist, I pondered the ironies of life.
I never worried about my tone after that though.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1355260' date='Aug 29 2011, 02:24 PM']To a certain extent, but not massively.[/quote]
Why not?

With my producer's hat on I'm always listening to what all the instruments are doing and adjusting my bass sound to suit. IMO the song is always king.

To ignore what the song calls for and simply use "your sound" is as bad as the guitarist that plays too loud and inappropriately and is quite rightly slagged off.

[4000]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1355508' date='Aug 29 2011, 06:25 PM']Why not?

With my producer's hat on I'm always listening to what all the instruments are doing and adjusting my bass sound to suit. IMO the song is always king.

To ignore what the song calls for and simply use "your sound" is as bad as the guitarist that plays too loud and inappropriately and is quite rightly slagged off.[/quote]

I would tend to agree with this with the caveat that different people may have very different ideas about what the song calls for. This is something I constantly wrestle with. Geezer Butler famously said he used to get loads of grief from engineers about using distortion, when he believed it was required. Myself and JTUK, for example, have opposite opinions when it comes to John Entwistle's Alembic sound in the Who and John McVie's Alembic sound in Fleetwood Mac.

Some people don't care what they sound like, and some of them are fantastic players. They're too busy playing. Personally, if I don't sound how I want to then I don't play how I want to, so for me it's very important. In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm more worried about how I sound onstage than offstage; I care less about the sound that other people are hearing than the one I'm hearing, because the one I'm hearing has so much bearing on my playing. Daft, maybe, but true. I often wish it wasn't the case.

[xgsjx]

I think the sound of the bass matters as much as any other instrument.
Yes the average punter wont know what the bass is let alone the sound, but if you play a song with a bridge pickup & a bright sound & then play it with the neck pickup & a very bassy sound, the audience will know the difference as it will most likely change the overall sound & feel of the song.
& for sound not making a big difference, try playing dubstep with no effects. It's no longer dubstep.