Sound

[JTUK]

I agree with using a sound that is helpful to you. I am often asked to use an effect but I'd rather emulate the sound/feel/vibe with just what I have...sounds corny, but, my hands...
If I dig in hard I can get OD ..kind of...I can emulate fretless to a degree, all within the scope of my general sound and style.
If a bass sounds poor or average, even, then I think that detracts from the band.

If vox sound poor, no playing is going to be able to bring that band up, and the same applies...to a lesser degree, admittedly, with other sounds within the band.
All instruments need a bit of working on... and it is a basic element of playing, IMO. If you take a bit of time here, it can get you points elsewhere.
I find audiences might not know much about sound themselves, but they know enough that it sounds like a the record... or that it is truly offensive..mostly

I have to take references about sound from the guys in the band..and I trust them to a degree. Most comment favourably but I take more heart from the fact that they don't HAVE to take issue with it.
If it was awful, you'd sure be pulled up about it..

If you get regular mentions from the guys you play with..you can also be sure they are mentioning that to other guys as well...so that doesn't do you any harm...at all.
Sounds great, feels good are the best endorsements for me...why shoot myself if I can only achieve one..esp as sounds good is easier to get than feels good, IMO.

[Dubs]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1355508' date='Aug 29 2011, 06:25 PM']Why not?

With my producer's hat on I'm always listening to what all the instruments are doing and adjusting my bass sound to suit. IMO the song is always king.

To ignore what the song calls for and simply use "your sound" is as bad as the guitarist that plays too loud and inappropriately and is quite rightly slagged off.[/quote]

Subtle differences maybe, but from experience I know there'd be issues if I went into the studio with my band to record an album or EP and I was making significant changes to the sound of my bass for each song. If everyone done that for each song then it wouldn't sit well as a finished piece of work and would just sound like a 'collection' of songs, if you get what I mean. Seems like it's a lot of fuss over nothing when in a band situation. I'd go prepared knowing how to get a really good bass sound ('my sound') and possibly adjust it slightly [b]if[/b] the song required it. The most distinctive features of a band can be how the individual muscians' sounds work together, album after album with little change to the actual sound of the instruments.

As an individual session working on individual songs, maybe with different bands/artists, then consideration for the sound of your bass is very important, however, changing it for the sake of changing it can be an issue to get hung up on for no reason and distract you from actually playing what the song needs. In reality I'd probably have a listen to what's going on, get a rough sound that I think works for the song, but ultimately leave it up to the producer to fuss over it whilst I get on laying down some epic groove

So to reiterate, a good musician tailors their sound to suit the song to a certain extent.

[BottomE]

For about the first 20 years of playing i didn't give a monkey about my sound. I had reasonable gear, kept getting gigs and didn't think it important. Took a break from playing and then all i did was worry about my sound. Lately i am back to not worrying about it. The gear is all very good quality but more importantly i have started to realise that i sound pretty much like me on whatever bass i play. I have also realised that punters don't give a toss. Feeling comfortable with the sound is important but i am not so obsessed with a particular sound.

Edit - referring to gigging sound and not recording.

Edited August 29, 2011 by BottomE

[BigRedX]

IMO songs by a band sound as though they are by the same band because of the song writing not because of the individual instrument sounds.

Maybe it's because I spent a good while playing in an all-synth band in the 80s where the sounds used were different on every song and so I've carried that thinking through to my guitar and bass playing.

[Dubs]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1355601' date='Aug 29 2011, 07:48 PM']IMO songs by a band sound as though they are by the same band because of the song writing not because of the individual instrument sounds.[/quote]

I'd say it's a lot closer to being 50/50, just in my experience though.

[derrenleepoole]

Played the Limetree Festival over the weekend, and it was a great gig in that all I had to take was 'me and my bass guitar' The supplied amp on stage was a Crate 1x15 combo, nothing amazing, but it did the job. Now, what struck me was this, I played the gig through my new, literally 2 days old Squier Jaguar SS, and I ran first into a DI box splitter and then into the amp. The amp was there purely as backline and didn't carry any tone to the PA at all. The whole tone of the instrument was from me and the way I played the instrument - nothing else involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone made comments on how good the band sounded and played together, I even got individual praise on my playing and tone!

Now, the next guy turns up, he's using a beautiful MM Stingray and a lovely SWR 2x10 Redhead combo... thing is, that wasn't his tone out front coming through the PA. He ran his signal exactly the same way I did, so the SWR acted as backline only - there's no way that that combo could produce the volume required for the gig - PA handled it. Granted, the MM has a much better tonal capacity than a budget Squier. But you have to wonder at what point is tone all that important. In this instance none. I sounded just as good as the next guy, me with a £170 bass and him with a very expensive MM and SWR rig. Makes you wonder doesn't it

BTW, if that other bassist is reading this, he was a great player

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1355621' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:04 PM']I'd say it's a lot closer to being 50/50, just in my experience though.[/quote]
Probably listen to fairly different music then.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1355621' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:04 PM']I'd say it's a lot closer to being 50/50, just in my experience though.[/quote]

I would agree with this. Take the Michel Camilo Trio as an example, when you listen to the recordings/live shows with Anthony Jackson on bass, you can tell its him playing because his sound is very distinctive.

Some really interesting responses here

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1355601' date='Aug 29 2011, 07:48 PM']IMO songs by a band sound as though they are by the same band because of the song writing not because of the individual instrument sounds.

Maybe it's because I spent a good while playing in an all-synth band in the 80s where the sounds used were different on every song and so I've carried that thinking through to my guitar and bass playing.[/quote]

Im with you BigRedX, If anything I actually go out of my way to make the songs a different as possible gear wise, if it were say a 2 track demo Id use an MM for one track and a P or Jazz for the other, infact if one of your Gus basses were on hand for a third track Id use that too A collection of songs is a good thing IMO not something to avoid, If I wanted to hear 13 tracks all using the same gear setup in the same way played by the same people Id by a Justin Beiber album or something

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='1355669' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:42 PM']I would agree with this. Take the Michel Camilo Trio as an example, when you listen to the recordings/live shows with Anthony Jackson on bass, you can tell its him playing because his sound is very distinctive.

Some really interesting responses here [/quote]

Its in the fingers though, we should know this by now

[Lozz196]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1355654' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:30 PM']Played the Limetree Festival over the weekend, and it was a great gig in that all I had to take was 'me and my bass guitar' The supplied amp on stage was a Crate 1x15 combo, nothing amazing, but it did the job. Now, what struck me was this, I played the gig through my new, literally 2 days old Squier Jaguar SS, and I ran first into a DI box splitter and then into the amp. The amp was there purely as backline and didn't carry any tone to the PA at all. The whole tone of the instrument was from me and the way I played the instrument - nothing else involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone made comments on how good the band sounded and played together, I even got individual praise on my playing and tone!

Now, the next guy turns up, he's using a beautiful MM Stingray and a lovely SWR 2x10 Redhead combo... thing is, that wasn't his tone out front coming through the PA. He ran his signal exactly the same way I did, so the SWR acted as backline only - there's no way that that combo could produce the volume required for the gig - PA handled it. Granted, the MM has a much better tonal capacity than a budget Squier. But you have to wonder at what point is tone all that important. In this instance none. I sounded just as good as the next guy, me with a £170 bass and him with a very expensive MM and SWR rig. Makes you wonder doesn't it

BTW, if that other bassist is reading this, he was a great player [/quote]

The above is very interesting, as I`ve had similar experiences.

In my last band, playing at The Pitz, in The Woughton Centre, Milton Keynes, the PA guys have always pre-DI`d me into the FOH PA. The first time we played there, at the sound check, I went out front and wasn`t too happy, as on it`s own, the bass sounded gutless to me - but thought would wait until hearing the whole band mix, to see if any adjustment was needed.

Once I heard the mix, I asked "what changes did you make to the bass eq then?" None was the answer, thats your bass straight through the bins. Yet in the mix it sounded awesome. So it was literally the sound of a flat Fender Precision coming through the speakers, and it was exactly right in the mix. Clear yet not weedy, thick yet not boomy.

From then on, I`ve tried to have my amp settings as flat as is possible, only minor adjustments. On it`s own it never sounds enough, yet with the whole band, it just works.

I suppose the point I learned from this was, don`t try and have a good sound across the whole tonal spectrum, do the job the bass is meant to do, leave the rest to the other instruments, that`s why you`re all there - you each make the band what it is.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Lozz196

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1355673' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:47 PM']Its in the fingers though, we should know this by now [/quote]

I'm not disputing that, i would say that 80-90% is down to the fingers, but his Fodera contrabass and his rig do play a part in him sounding the way he does

Edited August 29, 2011 by funkypenguin

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1355680' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:54 PM']The above is very interesting, as I`ve had similar experiences.

In my last band, playing at The Pitz, in The Woughton Centre, Milton Keynes, the PA guys have always pre-DI`d me into the FOH PA. The first time we played there, at the sound check, I went out front and wasn`t too happy, as on it`s own, the bass sounded gutless to me - but thought would wait until hearing the whole band mix, to see if any adjustment was needed.

Once I heard the mix, I asked "what changes did you make to the bass eq then?" None was the answer, thats your bass straight through the bins. Yet in the mix it sounded awesome. So it was literally the sound of a flat Fender Precision coming through the speakers, and it was exactly right in the mix. Clear yet not weedy, thick yet not boomy.

From then on, I`ve tried to have my amp settings as flat as is possible, only minor adjustments. On it`s own it never sounds enough, yet with the whole band, it just works.[/quote]

Good points. Obviously, it won't work in every situation, but in this instance it did. The sound guys were excellent at Limetree festival. In fact, I also played the Small World Festival two weeks before, and it was exactly the same situation - turn up, use my bass pre-DI'd into supplied amp. Again, the tone was from my bass. At this gig I used my SX short scale fretless. There was one BC member there that I know of called Paulo M, an absolutely lovely bloke. He made comments on my tone, and that was just a budget bass with upgraded GFS pro wind pickups in it.

I think there's something to be said for just using a J or P bass with flats, and letting your fingers do the talking.

[Dubs]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1355672' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:46 PM']If I wanted to hear 13 tracks all using the same gear setup in the same way played by the same people Id by a Justin Beiber album or something [/quote]

Or Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rolling Stones, Pendulum, Prodigy, The Pixies, Oasis, Guns N' Roses, The Beatles (to a certain extent)... just off the top of my head. Is it really that much of a bad thing?

[dc2009]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1356024' date='Aug 30 2011, 10:30 AM'] Or Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rolling Stones, Pendulum, Prodigy, The Pixies, Oasis, Guns N' Roses, The Beatles (to a certain extent)... just off the top of my head. Is it really that much of a bad thing?[/quote]

The red hot chilli peppers have a whole range of different instrument styles (all four of them, including the vocals here) on most of their albums, all played by the same guys. Flea will slap or fingerstyle or pick all in the same album, guitar tracks like Cabron, Under The Bridge and Fortune Faded all have a completely different feel to them, the drums and vocals etc are similar.

So don't chuck RHCP into a bunch of sh1t (IMO) bands! (One exception)

[Dubs]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1356030' date='Aug 30 2011, 10:35 AM']The red hot chilli peppers have a whole range of different instrument styles (all four of them, including the vocals here) on most of their albums, all played by the same guys. Flea will slap or fingerstyle or pick all in the same album, guitar tracks like Cabron, Under The Bridge and Fortune Faded all have a completely different feel to them, the drums and vocals etc are similar.

So don't chuck RHCP into a bunch of sh1t (IMO) bands! (One exception)[/quote]

You're talking about songs across different albums, different decades. Even so, they have a very distinctive sound.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dubs' post='1356054' date='Aug 30 2011, 11:00 AM']You're talking about songs across different albums, different decades. Even so, they have a very distinctive sound.[/quote]
There have been at least 4 different guitarists and 2 drummers too, not the same 4 members at all.

[Dubs]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1356548' date='Aug 30 2011, 05:12 PM']There have been at least 4 different guitarists and 2 drummers too, not the same 4 members at all.[/quote]

So you think they don't have, or have ever had, a distinctive sound as a band at all? The BSSM era wasn't a distinctive sound? Califiornication doesn't have a distinctive sound as an album? Chad Smith and John Frusciante don't have distinctive sounds as individual musicians?

[stingrayPete1977]

Distinctive sounds because the songs were created at a similar time for each album yes but not the same tone it's different. As a good example frusciante used strats and his big hollow bodied gretsch (spelling?) in equal measure on Californication and probably other albums to, they are polar opposites as far a guitars go. Flea slapped whole songs and not a pop on others on the same album so I disagree fully

[Dubs]

Fair doos

[funkypenguin]

[url="http://www.musikmachen.de/Workshops/Bass-Videoworkshop-It-s-all-about-SOUND"]http://www.musikmachen.de/Workshops/Bass-V...all-about-SOUND[/url]

Jonas Hellborg talking about sound. worth watching

[ThomBassmonkey]

This whole "tone is in the fingers" thing is rubbish IMO.

Yes, you're more likely to recognise a bassist by what (s)he's playing than what (s)he plays, but that's not tone, that's style. If Fieldy and Flea swapped gear and you asked them to ring out a single note, the instruments would sound more alike than the players. If you got them to jam then their style would shine through and even though their tone would still be "wrong", they'd still be recognisable by how they play.

The thing about what we hear is that 90% of opinions on this kind of thing are based on properly studio recorded music. If the band is playing a fairly consistent style then there's a good chance that the engineer will be trying to get a certain sound from the bass. With enough post production effects and EQ pretty much anything can be made to sound like anything. It's ok saying "the bass on Chilli's first album sounded exactly like their most recent" but without knowing what was affecting the sound in the studio, it's less reliable than not knowing what amp they used.

Edited September 8, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[Chris2112]

Yes, sound is everything to me. Getting a performance right isn't just about hitting the right notes at the right time. Your tone must be right, you must get the sound to the audience in the best possible manner.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1366004' date='Sep 8 2011, 06:06 AM']Yes, sound is everything to me. Getting a performance right isn't just about hitting the right notes at the right time. Your tone must be right, you must get the sound to the audience in the best possible manner.[/quote]

Yes good point, don`t think that The Stranglers would have had such an impact, had JJ used a dub-reggae tone somehow.

[fatboyslimfast]

My sound tends to be similar regardless of the bass or amp I'm using.

Scratchy, variable in volume, off-timed and more than the occasional bummed note.