charic Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1359532' date='Sep 2 2011, 09:29 AM']Anyone that claims small diameter cones cabs can't do big lows needs to try an Acme Low-B, an Ampeg 410HLF, a Bergantino HT210, a EA VL210, etc... Or an SWR Henry 8x8"![/quote] + any of the PJB's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Get plenty of bass out of my 2x210. Far better for me than 12"s or 15"s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='bobpalt' post='1358467' date='Sep 1 2011, 09:39 AM']I have been through a number of cabs in the last year, constantly looking for the Holy Grail, but the fact of the matter is, I really dont know what I'm looking for![/quote] What you're looking for is a cab that uses a top quality driver, and the only way you're going to get one is by fitting it yourself. Screw a BMS 15N620 into your EBS cab and you'll never look back. They're around £300 from UK sources but some German resellers were charging £200 last time I checked. I had a good look inside an EBS Proline cab not too long ago (a 2 x 12"). Apart from the serious omission of proper bracing and the lack of t-nuts, it was beautifully built from Baltic birch ply and I doubt if anybody else makes anything better. Just get a premium quality driver and you'll be sorted. Edited September 2, 2011 by stevie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1359901' date='Sep 2 2011, 02:20 PM']...apart from the [b]serious omission of proper bracing[/b] and the lack of t-nuts, it was beautifully built from Baltic birch ply and I doubt if anybody else makes anything better...[/quote] Oxymoron?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1359938' date='Sep 2 2011, 02:50 PM']Oxymoron?!![/quote] Well, Alex, I mentioned those things because the basic build quality was sound and those things would not be too difficult to remedy. I've yet to see a bass cab where the manufacturer has not skimped in some areas - although I haven't seen any of yours up close yet . I seem to remember EBS didn't use any foam gasket on their HF unit either, but I don't want to get too anal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I see your point! Those BMS drivers are nice, though whether they're worth the extra over the best B&C, Ciare, Eminence or Beyma drivers for bass guitar use is debatable - the enclosure details are likely to make more difference. It does sound like Bob would be well served by a quality 1-way cab with a nice woofer or two in it. I'm a great believer in finding the kind(s) of sound you'd like to get from your rig on certain recordings, that way people can listen and advise accurately rather than make guesses based on inaccurate wordy descriptions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I suggested the BMS because I'm familiar with it and know it will work in the EBS cab. I accept that the other companies you mention build some equally fine products, although I'm afraid Eminence don't currently compete at the very top end. Which is why you need to retrofit if you want to go there, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1358557' date='Sep 1 2011, 10:50 AM']Your conclusion that you prefer 15"s to other sizes is flawed because you can't accurately group the sound of speakers by woofer size. It sounds like you prefer smoother, fatter cabs - doesn't matter what size speakers you use to get that sound as long as you get that sound![/quote] [quote name='bobpalt' post='1358980' date='Sep 1 2011, 04:47 PM']Now I'm getting really confused!! Bob[/quote] [quote name='51m0n' post='1359351' date='Sep 1 2011, 11:29 PM']Nope, you are very misguided, diameter has nothing to do with tone at all.[/quote] It can be confusing but sometimes over simplifying doesn't help. I'm a bit worried that the OP is being told that size isn't important and that nothing in the 'Physics' makes it so. This just isn't true. Large cones shift more air and are generally more efficient than small cones. If they are the same thickness they will be heavier and have a lower resonant frequency, if they are are thinner they will flex more and give more (but probably uneven) mids and tops. You can make a small cone reach lower down by adding mass with a thicker cone but this will reduce the higher frequencies and the efficiency. A small cone needs to move further than a large cone to produce the same absolute sound levels at low frequencies and I won't go into the problems of radiation patterns and multiple drivers. There are certain things that are easier with a 15 and other things that are easier with a 10. There are also ways round the 'problems' of designing a cab around either. There is a tendency for 15's and 10's to have similarities but no iron laws on their overall sounds which depend upon so many factors. This is why Alex said "you can't accurately group the sound of speakers by woofer size." and went on to say "doesn't matter what size speakers you use to get that sound as long as you get that sound!" He was being careful, it is not that all 15's have a 'sound' but that ultimately you need to not have preconceptions and just listen to the sound a cab makes. He was also telling you to trust your ears. Sometimes the careful, thoughtful advice gets drowned out by the categorical and though a bit of technical knowledge helps you should really trust what you hear when it comes to tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1359014' date='Sep 1 2011, 05:15 PM'][url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=143267&st=20"]This Barefaced BigOne will gove you a very big smooth deep sound[/url]?[/quote] Gotta say I'm looking forward to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobpalt Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks for all your kind advice. I've bought an Accugroove Whappo Junior. I hope that was the right thing to do.... Cheers, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 [quote name='bobpalt' post='1370992' date='Sep 12 2011, 07:55 PM']....I've bought an Accugroove Whappo Junior. I hope that was the right thing to do....[/quote] You tell us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lozz196' post='1359436' date='Sep 2 2011, 07:27 AM']In my experience, the size of the speaker having a direct impact on amount of lows only seems to be relevant to the cheaper cabs. Having had cabs from budget ranges, there were vast differences in the amount of "bassiness" from a 115 to a 210. But now, having used decent cabs for the last few years, they`ll do what is asked of them. My Barefaced Compact is a 115, and can be made very "toppy" and it doesn`t even have a tweeter. It will of course do amazing lows as well. Likewise, the Eden Nemesis 410 I`ve just sold could do soooooooo low it was unbelieveable. If I were a tad more cynical, I`d possibly think that the budget cabs are made that way for a reason, so people have to go out and buy the matching "other one" to get the full sound, but hey, would companies really do that, just for profit?[/quote] I think the reason is more mundane than that. Cheap cabs are dependent on the driver size is because cheap drivers tend to work best in a narrower range of frequencies. For instance a cheap 12/15 will have a less rigid cone which means it start to "breaks up" (only inner part of cone moving) rather than "pistoning" (entire cone moving) above a certain frequency. Its this breakup that we think of the "wooly/warm 15 charaterisic sound". A high quality driver OTOH will have a very rigid yet lighweight cone that will exhibit lower smoother break up at high frequencies thus giving cleaner mids and more extended highs we previously associated with 10s. Being bareface compact owners we know all too well that a good modern 15 driver can compete with 10s for mid/highs. If course if you want a true "hi fi at rock concert volumes" sort of sound then you need a cab designed so that all the drivers are pistoning all the time and this is, as I understand it the design philosphy behind the bass cabs that have dedicated mid drivers (acme low b, bareface big series, wappo jr). Edited September 14, 2011 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='bassman7755' post='1372880' date='Sep 14 2011, 09:55 AM']A high quality driver OTOH will have a very rigid yet lighweight cone that will exhibit lower smoother break up at high frequencies thus giving cleaner mids and more extended highs we previously associated with 10s. Being bareface compact owners we know all too well that a good modern 15 driver can compete with 10s for mid/highs.[/quote] hmmm.... really..?? is that why everyone seems to need to pair it with a 12 on top...as they either can't hear enough or they need a top end. Not such a one cab solution if the head count round here seems to pair up these cabs. Edited September 16, 2011 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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