De-fretting An Electro-Acoustic

[von Braun]

Gents,

I have an urge to convert my Dean electro-acoustic to a lined fretless. Has anyone ever attempted anything similiar?

Since it's virtually the size of a stand-up bass, I'd thought I'd try and make it sound like one :-)

I can foresee a few potential problem areas:

1. De-fretting - can this put any strain on the neck?
2. Intonation - there is no height or string length adjustment as it's a fixed bridge.
3. Conversion of the fretboard once de-fretted - I understand there are some good epoxy resins around, does anyone have any recommendations?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Cheers

VB

[noelk27]

Not sure you'll achieve that: make your acoustic sound more like an upright. Sure, you'll alter how it sounds as you play, but defretting won't change the overall sound, so if it doesn't sound like an upright now, it won't sound any more like an upright when you're done.

As for the potential problems:
1. No. If you mean the process, it's relatively straightforward to do: heat the fretwire with a soldering iron, to break the bond of the glue; remove with a pair of needle-nose pliers; clear the slot; fill with your preference of plastic insert or sawdust/glue mix.
2. You can tackle this issue by shaving any saddle(s) and/or removing and shaving the bridge.
3. There are, but if what you want is more of an upright sound, then you want more wood tones, and not synthetics. All the synthetics do is introduce more top end/more shimmer.

Edited September 5, 2011 by noelk27

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='von Braun' post='1362806' date='Sep 5 2011, 01:01 PM']Gents,

I have an urge to convert my Dean electro-acoustic to a lined fretless. Has anyone ever attempted anything similiar?

[b]Since it's virtually the size of a stand-up bass,[/b] I'd thought I'd try and make it sound like one :-)

I can foresee a few potential problem areas:

1. De-fretting - can this put any strain on the neck?
2. Intonation - there is no height or string length adjustment as it's a fixed bridge.
3. Conversion of the fretboard once de-fretted - I understand there are some good epoxy resins around, does anyone have any recommendations?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Cheers

VB[/quote]

surely a double bass has a much bigger scale length?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1362855' date='Sep 5 2011, 01:45 PM']surely a double bass has a much bigger scale length?[/quote]

What's 7 or 8 inches among friends?!
The different scale length and increased vibrating mass of any given string (whether fingered or not) for a given pitch considerably shifts the balance of fundamental/harmonic output of the instrument. You might get an approximation, but that'd be it. 34" scale electric fretless bass has the potential to have a voice all of its own. Just as a Full scale EUB or Double bass does.

[von Braun]

Thanks chaps, plenty of food for thought.

I got the idea watching some Scottish - American folk thing on BBC4, one of the bassists was using what looked like a Godin (or something similiar) fretless electro-acoustic. Interesting sound, not quite stand up bass but with the something of that quality about, very woody with an element of er, slappiness about it. Be interesting to know how he had it tuned. The Dean is a full 34" scale so I've got a bit to play with on that front, although it'll only take a medium guage set of strings at most.

Might see if Vince Hockey is still trading down in Southampton. Might be a job for a luthier after all.

[henry norton]

Go for it - can I just add you're best off putting veneers into the slots rather than filler or glue & dust. That way you get a nice, crisp line in either a contrasting wood like maple or birch (assuming the board is rosewood), or something like walnut which'll show up close up but be more difficult to see from far away, which makes it look like a plain fretless for extra cool points

If you find you absolutely hate the sound and feel, you can still get it re-fretted, especially if you've not had it coated.

[Dom in Dorset]

+1 for filling the slots with veneer, I've done one with wood dust and glue- not a patch on the one I did with veneers.
Re strings: round wound strings will eat up a rosewood board, unless your board is ebony I'd consider flats or nylon wound .

[von Braun]

Cheers again. I'll have a google for suitable veneers tonight.

I'm thinking of getting the de-fretting done by someone who knows their stuff better than I do but the old wood-working skills are just about up to the re-finish job.

Any thoughts on strings? I'm thinking some sort of groundwounds or nylonwounds would be in order, failing that I've got a decent set of La Bella flat mediums around somewhere, with some decent life left in 'em.

[henry norton]

[quote name='von Braun' post='1364335' date='Sep 6 2011, 05:47 PM']Cheers again. I'll have a google for suitable veneers tonight.

I'm thinking of getting the de-fretting done by someone who knows their stuff better than I do but the old wood-working skills are just about up to the re-finish job.

Any thoughts on strings? I'm thinking some sort of groundwounds or nylonwounds would be in order, failing that I've got a decent set of La Bella flat mediums around somewhere, with some decent life left in 'em.[/quote]
You should use whatever strings you like the sound of. If you like stainless rounds I'd use them - rosewood boards don't last forever but they'll last longer than most professional and amateur doom merchants will have you think. I would always say keep the board plain unless you specifically want a brighter, more 'electric' sound epoxy gives you.

[Dom in Dorset]

Call me a doom merchant but I can only report what happened to me, rounds marked my rosewood board -almost instantly , I changed to nylons after a couple of days.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' post='1364629' date='Sep 6 2011, 09:10 PM']Call me a doom merchant but I can only report what happened to me, rounds marked my rosewood board -almost instantly , I changed to nylons after a couple of days.[/quote]
Yeah it's fair enough to feel worried when you see big lines across the board after your first string bend but it's generally just the windings 'polishing' the board rather than ruts being worn into it. Obviously playing heavy handedly for long periods, regularly will eventually wear the rosewood away, but it normally takes a fair bit of playing to make a real 'impression' on a decent rosewood board, even with rounds.

[lemmywinks]

+1 on the nylons if you're after an approximation of an upright.

Defretting and fitting nylons won't make the bass itself sound more like a db, but it will be easier to make it sound like one if you get my meaning.

[noelk27]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' post='1364629' date='Sep 6 2011, 08:10 PM'][R]ounds marked my rosewood board -almost instantly ...[/quote]
With a fretted touchboard the string rarely, if ever, contacts the surface of the wood, so players aren't used to seeing the touchboard mark up. With a fretless touchboard the string is in direct contact with the surface of the wood so minor contact wear occurs more quickly. Sure, poor technique, and heavy-handed playing, will also damage a touchboard and reduce its lifespan, but it took around 12 years for me to wear the surface of a rosewood touchboard to the extent that it required refinishing, and a further eight years before it needed replacing, and I was using nickel roundwounds. So, 20 years use out of one touchboard, and my main instrument is fretless.

Edited September 7, 2011 by noelk27

[Dom in Dorset]

Go with rounds then!
I have to say that my other reason for changing was that I didn't like the feel of rounds under my fingers on the fretless board.