advantages of a double bass?

[Crikey!]

Plain and simple, what are the advantages of a double bass over an electric bass? or is it simply down to tone and feel?

not having a dig, i'd just appreciate some thoughts, may lose my place in the local jazz orchestra because the director wants a double bassist instead.

[acidbass]

It's really just a sound thing. Double basses are a lot smoother than electric basses, and don't usually have as much sustain or punch. You can also use a bow with a double bass which is an advantage in an orchestra situation. Maybe if you tried experimenting with a fretless electric bass you may impress the director, but be warned that this is like learning a whole new instrument!

Of course the disadvantages are the size, weight, ease of use in a live situation (as regards micing etc), and for some, the look is a big disadvantage.

Overall it's your choice. If you want to keep your place in the orchestra, you may find that learning the double bass is not the best way to go about it. I'm sure the director would rather have an accomplished double bassist in than one who is only starting out. Maybe have a chat with him and see if what you're doing is what he's looking for? Personally I don't think a double bass is a necessity in a jazz orchestra, maybe in a classical orchestra, but there's no way you should automatically be ejected just because you use an electric bass.

[velvetkevorkian]

I think you nailed it woth tone and feel. Worth remembering though that it is a very different instrument, its not just a big fretless bass guitar.

Oh, and you can play it with a bow.

[Crikey!]

right, thanks for that, im pretty sure i can keep my place, i can play just as good if not better than the double bassist, if the tone is the only real problem i have a cheap double bass modeling type thingy that gets pretty close, and im sure it wouldn't make a huge difference in an orchestra situation. If its about the look then thats just a bit shallow really..

ive heard people say that electric basses are like double basses for lazy players, which is understandable to some extent considering the size issues with a double bass but when referring to tone, does playing style and technique influence the overall sound more or less on either type of bass? or is technique just technique and uninfluenced by the instrument?

[rodl2005]

Yep- TONE/SOUND/FEEL there's NOTHING like the sound of a Acoustic Dbl bass! Nuthin!
Shorter sustain, a real THUMP to each note-AWESOME! I DON'T have one- I've GOT a Modded Palatino Elec. Uprite double bass. This does a pretty darn good job at an acoustic Dbl bass sound-same scale, slightly hollow body-all helps. This sounds MUCH better in our jazz style band than if I just played elec bass all the time. I do use the elec. bass on about 1/3 of the songs- makes for a nice change when I do!
Cheers,
Rod.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Crikey!' post='1056' date='May 18 2007, 12:33 AM']right, thanks for that, im pretty sure i can keep my place, i can play just as good if not better than the double bassist, if the tone is the only real problem i have a cheap double bass modeling type thingy that gets pretty close, and im sure it wouldn't make a huge difference in an orchestra situation. If its about the look then thats just a bit shallow really..

ive heard people say that electric basses are like double basses for lazy players, which is understandable to some extent considering the size issues with a double bass but when referring to tone, does playing style and technique influence the overall sound more or less on either type of bass? or is technique just technique and uninfluenced by the instrument?[/quote]
Regarding technique, it is very different for each instrument, due to the size and shape of the neck and the ergonomics. I started out on DB before I played BG, and I have had serious problems as a result of transferring good DB technique on to BG, where it becomes very poor technique. Left hand shape is very different, and its impossible to use all 4 LH fingers in the lower positions without a serious technique adjustment- most DB players use their 3rd and 4th fingers together most of the way up the neck.

I'd be inclined to suggest that technique has more of an impact on sound on DB, purely because it tends to be the only way of affecting the sound- most players, when they play with an amp, use it only to supplement the acoustic noise of the bass, rather than as an integral part of their tone.

[jwbassman]

Hi guys - think I'll throw my two penneth in, for what it's worth...

I play with in big band and part of the reason I went fretless was to try and get closer to the upright sound, you cannot sound like a double bass even on a high-end fretless, although you can get close by playing over the fingerboard and in a less aggressive finger style - but I guess we're missing the point here...

If you have the right feel feel for chart and pick the right notes I guess it doesn't really matter what instrument you play - to quote Victor Wooten -"Bass is not an instrument, it's a role"

I'm sure that some of the charts in the pad would sound fantastic if I owned and could play a double bass, but the more modern arrangements are more suited to bass guitar, so I guess you work with the tools you've got and just give it your best

John

[rodl2005]

I'll ALSO say that I agree with ACID-BASS in that U need to talk to the ochestra manager & find out what the NEEDS really are- While NOTHING can sound exactly like a acoustic Dbl bass U CAN get pretty closewith fretless(even fretted) playing with yr thumb, righ up near/on the neck area & rolling off a bit of trebles. If U have a DBL bass moddeller thingy- give it a try with the band... Shouldn't be about LOOKS U R RIGHT!

[Bushmaster]

I just wouldn't think of them as alternatives which may have advantages vs. disadvantages. If you have the time and resources it certainly can be worth learning to play both (as well as fretless), just as it's worth the effort to learn cello or any other instrument you're seriously interested in. With time your experience will tell you how [i]you[/i] want to approach which musical situation.

[quote name='jwbassman' post='4637' date='May 22 2007, 08:57 PM']to quote Victor Wooten -"Bass is not an instrument, it's a role"[/quote]

Very funny hearing this from a guy who certainly is not trapped within the limits of conventional role concepts.

[jwbassman]

Victor may not be trapped - but listen to him talk about music and he'll tell you it's all about the groove - yes he can do all the other stuff and much better than most, but he's about fundamentals first and foremost and at these he is awesome

Edited May 24, 2007 by jwbassman

[MB1]

MB1.

You can get on a bus with an eub.not advisable to try this with a double bass!

[velvetkevorkian]

You'd be surprised... my double bass <3 public transport. On the tube its a squeeze (Glasgow tube is smaller than the London version) and I wouldn't like to do it at rush hour but its certainly doable

[MythSte]

if your orchestra manager wants a more double bass feel then get/make a mute of some sort by ramming some foam under the bridge or under a pickup cover and play right up near the neck. again, its not a double bass, but your getting closer/

[chris_b]

All the above comments are true........ but in certain (jazz) circles there is snobbery about double bass. Laurence Cottle is a fantastic electric jazz bass player, but Martin Drew (ex Ronnie Scott drummer, who runs his own jazz group) said that he couldn't use Laurence on some gigs because he didn't play double bass and the promoters and audience wouldn't accept electric bass.

This isn't about the sound or the logic, it's about prejudice and you can't do much about that. Jazzers can be very bigoted. I hope your Orchestra leader is a reasonable chap.

[Alun]

[quote name='chris_b' post='8589' date='May 29 2007, 01:32 PM']All the above comments are true........ but in certain (jazz) circles there is snobbery about double bass. Laurence Cottle is a fantastic electric jazz bass player, but Martin Drew (ex Ronnie Scott drummer, who runs his own jazz group) said that he couldn't use Laurence on some gigs because he didn't play double bass and the promoters and audience wouldn't accept electric bass.

This isn't about the sound or the logic, it's about prejudice and you can't do much about that. Jazzers can be very bigoted.[/quote]

This is very true, and is a sad fact of the jazz scene at the moment. I do a lot of jazz work on bass guitar and it is looked upon as "second best" no matter how well you play. You always think of jazz as less image conscious than pop, but when it comes to bass it can be just as bad.

I recently did a gig with a singer who'd contacted me via my Myspace page (which has tracks played on bass guitar and pictures of bass guitar). We discussed tunes, etc including some bass and vocal only tunes which I prepared in advance. When they got to the gig, they said they thought I played upright and weren't sure if they wanted to do the duets with bass guitar As it turned out, we did them with vocals and fretless and they went down really well.

I use an Ashbory for simulating upright on recordings, but it just doesn't suit the look of a sultry jazz gig.

Another example - I was chatting to a well known UK upright player before a gig and mentioned I was considering an NS Wav. He then lectured me for five minutes on how "stick basses" and pointless and I should get a Mo Clifton bass as they have a more realistic tone. He then went on and played an upright with a magnetic pick up that sounded like a fretless Precision - no upright character at all. But it looked right.

Cheers,
Alun

[BassBod]

Interesting - when I got my Mo Clifton EUB there was a lot of "what's that" - but ten years later people listen to it and pretty much accept it as a viable alternative to an acoustic (even the Bluegrass crowd). A lot of that is the sound of the Realist pickup - it does a very good job of translating the "thump". I had a magnetic on mine and took it off - yes, it sounded like a giant fretless Pbass. Only good for really loud situations.

BB

[endorka]

I've been using my NS WAV on all my jazz gigs over the last four or five months, and it has been received very well; there is definitely a lot of the "what's that" factor, but in a positive way. I think most of this is because it does actually sound quite like a double bass - I believe the pickup shares some similarities with the Realist one you mention.

Alun, you are right that for some people it is the look that counts; in my experience the image conscious have all been very happy with the appearance of the NS.

Jennifer

[Alun]

[quote name='BassBod' post='29641' date='Jul 10 2007, 11:09 AM']Interesting - when I got my Mo Clifton EUB there was a lot of "what's that" - but ten years later people listen to it and pretty much accept it as a viable alternative to an acoustic (even the Bluegrass crowd). A lot of that is the sound of the Realist pickup - it does a very good job of translating the "thump". I had a magnetic on mine and took it off - yes, it sounded like a giant fretless Pbass. Only good for really loud situations.

BB[/quote]

I didn't make it very clear sorry - I like the Cliftons and they do indeed sound quite acoustic-y. The bass this player used wasn't A Clifton, not even an EUB, it was a standard upright which made it even more daft

Cheers,
Alun

[BassBod]

Hi Alun

Sorry - didn't think you were being un-Clifton!

I've heard plenty of lovely acoustics sounding awful because players don't understand the dark art of pick ups. The old schaller magnetics made the bass audible (with steel strings) but lost virtually all the character of the instrument - and every magnetic pickup seems to do the same (including the Kent Armstrong originally fitted to my Clifton).

I can remember a great local player that carried a double bass (with schaller) and a Sound City rig fit for a rock guitarist - but everybody could hear him and that was something in 1978!

Things have come a long way since then...

BB

[edward]

I found that fitting Rotosound black flatwound strings give a good DB sound on my EB, nice warm tone with no roundwound rattle, kinder to frets too. However there are some deeply convinced EB haters out there who will never tire of making depracatory remarks about cricket bats and electric sticks.
I use both EB and DB, but I far prefer DB. I can pick it up and play, no pluggin' in and all that stuff, but mostly it is the tone, sustain, warmth, flexibility, and sheer sensual feel of an acoustic instrument that does it for me. Consider the advantage of not needing amplification too, stand there and play with a pianist or a guitarist, see peoples faces light up as they realise you will not doing any harm to their hearing. The 'Underwood' transducer does the business where more whampo is needed and for £2000 or so there are some very nice Chinese basses available, and if you take care of a DB you will find it to be a[ pardon thr terrible pun ] sound investment. Ed.

Edited September 8, 2007 by edward

[zero9]

The advantage of a DB is that it can be played acoustically at sufficient volume to keep up with a (not too loud) band, say guitar, drums (with brushes) and piano. This is not possible with an electric bass without an amplifier.

It's true that a DB fitted with a piezo transducer will sound like an EUB or possibly a fretless BG. That's why a lot of DB players will amplify their DB with both a piezo and a mic to try and get the best of both.

After all once you put a mic in front of something it's no longer acoustic.....