john_the_bass Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I've just picked this up from the ashdown vs ampeg thread [quote name='Oxblood' post='14704' date='Jun 9 2007, 05:24 PM']First off, +1 to what paul just said. Lefty's EVO rackmount head is exactly the same amp as a current EVO II, only made with love in Essex.[/quote] The back of my ABM 300 EVO II and my ABM Mini 15 states it's made in England - presumably Essex? I know the cheaper ranges (MAG/EB) are made in China, but has ABM production (and the new stuff - can't remember what it's called) switched to China as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashevans09 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 [quote name='john_the_bass' post='16067' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:53 AM']has ABM production (and the new stuff - can't remember what it's called) switched to China as well?[/quote] Hi, Yeah, the ABM series is now manufactured in china, though there are some new british made ABM's floating around, you just gotta look for them. The Klystron heads and Neo cabs are still made in the UK though. Hope that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_the_bass Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 well i never! I bought mine just before christmas so i suppose i must have been lucky cheers for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Always wondered why being made in China is such a bad thing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_the_bass Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 i think quality control was originally an issue to begin with - i've seen one or two chinese made guitars that would have been really good had somebody taken a bit of care constructing them and unfortunately, the quality really showed up to be [Sidding Hiss] poor against korean made examples from the same company (epiphone is a typical example). saying that, i've played chinese made avalons and michael kelly guitars which are great and when i was in boston on holidays, i played a few First Act guitars that were exceptionally well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nimrod Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 OK, I've thought long and hard about why I'll always try to get stuff that's *not* made in China... My Ashdown ABM 1 x 15 combo is made in Essex, my Ashdown ABM 4 x 10 cab is made in China. The UK made item has much better vinyl covering, it's more neatly applied... er, that's it really. Most of the innards of the amps have been Chinese for ages anyway, just 'assembled' in Essex. A while ago I rang Guy at Ashdown about this whole 'switching production to China' thing... I was [Sidding Hiss]ed off that they'd 'defected' to China for the AMB stuff, he said 'what's the problem?' To which I didn't have much of an answer ;-) The ABM gear still *sounds* the same... The point is, where is it designed, by whom and most importantly, how does it sound? What *really* gets me with Ashdown is the way that the prices drop... I mean, what's it worth. The ABM 1 x 15 combo (575w) started at nearly a grand... I paid about £750, they're now around £600. Partly of course 'cos they're now made in China!!! You pays yer money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 (edited) Trace gear did the same thing many years ago. Initially only played by the elite as it was expensive, then slipped to semi-pro price range, finally rock bottom price (and spec IMHO). Main issue was it knocked the stuffing out of the 2nd hand TE market and you didn't trust them to not drop the price further so it was counter-productive to sales! Edited June 12, 2007 by warwickhunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 (edited) [quote name='largo' post='16305' date='Jun 12 2007, 03:31 PM']Always wondered why being made in China is such a bad thing ?[/quote] It's not necesarily a bad thing for the consumer if the quality doesn't fall and the price reflects the labour costs of the country of manufacture. The musical equipment market is so competitive that if one manufacturer does it then the rest have to follow to remain in business. I expect that Chinese manufacturing will follow the same model as Japanese manufacturing. The Japanese started out making cheap crap and through a process of continuous development Made in Japan has become a byword for high quality goods. The downside is that manufacturing is the lifeblood of a country's economy and our trade deficit, which is currently running at something like £5 billion a month will only get worse as more manufacturing jobs are exported Edited June 12, 2007 by PaulMartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Made in China also gets read as "components soured in China". Chinese components are "normally" cheap rip-offs of "Western" originals (er, and Japanese thesedays!!). Case in point - one of the Chinese factories for the company I work for has asked for 3 samples of two products from the major Western manufacturer, so they can reverse engineer it and make it themselves. Fair play if the customer doesn't mind (which they don't). BUT, that is a sweeping generalisation and one which I think causes the problem. [list=1] [*]not all chinese components are crap [*]just because it's manufactured in China doesn't mean you've got the crap components in there - the "customer" (eg Ashdown) may well specify the exact components to source, which may still be the higher grade/better quality [*]Chinese manufacturing techniques and technology is progressing bloody fast, as mentioned above by Paul remember back to when "Made in Japan" was a bad sign (I can't, I'm too young ) [*]er, I think my brain is full. That's it. [/list] That said, as we've seen with Ashdown and with Trace before, moving out to China has resulted a drop in quality. China is very good at consumer goods which are disposable (TVs, DVD players etc) but all my customers who have higher end, more expensive and generally less volume product get it made in Japan, Malaysia, Europe or America. China will get there, it just isn't (quite) there yet. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 i have recently bought a mag 210 combo and so far all seems very well made indeed. it's bloody heavy and feels very solid. nothing appears cheaply done, the VU meter even seems to work very well (though i don't take it for mustard) but seems pretty acurate. all the dials feel tight and once the speakers had broken in the sound is full and deep and punchy which is just what i want (and very loud). am i bothered that it is made in china, no cos it works didn't cost the earth and i trust that it being designed in the UK that they are sensible enough to spec the components accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='16859' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:35 PM']am i bothered that it is made in china, no cos it works didn't cost the earth and i trust that it being designed in the UK that they are sensible enough to spec the components accordingly.[/quote] Exactly. Ultimately if it's designed and made well, it doesn't matter where they put it together. I think I missed a big point in my previous post - [quote]Made in China also gets read as "components sourced in China"[/quote] should have added [quote]mistakenly.[/quote] Again, going back to my day job, there is a model of "next generation" set top boxes in production at the mo in Western Europe, Eastern Europe and China, and it's the Western European plant which is screwing everything up in manufacture, not the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 spot on merton, i think the thing with ashdown was that they went through a stage where the china plant was going through a learning curve, it certainly seems as if the complaints about reliability and breakdowns have dropped off if not stopped all together as i haven't seen any. It certainly was a worry when i was shortlisting amps but as that took quite a while and the revision of the mag and EB range came out during that time things seem good (though you also need to bare in mind that there may be the odd one or two that slip the net). am i right in thinking (i'm sure i read it somewhere) that ashdown test all the amps that come into their essex wharehouse before they ship them out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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