Fretless help

[mentalextra]

I have had some fun with my bass after a "stay of absence" of over 30 yrs. I have had great fun re learning all those stranglers lines. But, and this is a big but I have really fallen in love with those beautiful Mick Karn fretless bass lines. Trouble is, as a hard digging pick player how do I go to fretless. I cant really afford to buy a Wal or a Fender fretless come to think of it. I would have to make do with a Cheaper copy of something. But would that give me the sound I am after. I even thought about getting a fretless neck and swapping it over on my fretted guitar just to try and see how it feels. Not really sure what to do or where to go now!

[Blademan_98]

Hi, I love the fretless sound (I own 3 of them!).

You can get a nice second hand one (check the for sale section ) I got my Squier Jazz for £150 and it plays well after a good setup.

The Rogue P/J fretless only cost £100 second hand and covers the 'P' bass playing.

Good luck with your search

[chaypup]

Go down the 'Japcrap' route and you can get a great bass for very little money. I bought a lovely Ibanez roadster fretless for under £100 and currently have a Westone Thunder II Fretless - the through-neck and ebony finger give it great tone!

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westone-fretless-bass-/290610357725?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item43a9ba25dd#ht_500wt_951"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westone-fretless...dd#ht_500wt_951[/url]

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-BB3000AF-fretless-bass-1980s-thru-neck-active-rare-no-reserve-/170697392873?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item27be5b82e9#ht_500wt_951"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-BB3000AF-...e9#ht_500wt_951[/url]

here's a couple, although the Yammy will prob go for a few quid more than it's at at the moment!

Edited September 17, 2011 by chaypup

[mentalextra]

Thanks, I will keep my eyes open.

[BassBus]

Only a Wal will give you the true sound that Mick Karn had. However, if you get a fretless with a pickup near the bridge and mix the bias towards that, that should get close. Boost the mids as well. Good luck and I don't think you would regret having a go at fretless.

[mentalextra]

Trouble is I'm broke at the moment. No spare money for "toys". A lottery win would be nice?

[CS2]

Mick Karn had a unique way of playing, note choice and timing...

If you want to learn fretless you are IMHO going to have to learn how to play fingerstyle. You can do that on your fretted, whilst saving up for a fretless. The aforementioned Squier jazz is ok and excellent for the money.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='CS2' timestamp='1316364236' post='1376956']
Mick Karn had a unique way of playing, note choice and timing...

If you want to learn fretless you are IMHO going to have to learn how to play [color=#00ffff]fingerstyle[/color]. You can do that on your fretted, whilst saving up for a fretless. The aforementioned Squier jazz is ok and excellent for the money.
[/quote]

Yep, dont think he used a pick Will I have to stop using my beloved roundwound strings too!

[lobematt]

I use rounds on my fretless and the board is untreated, the bass is 20 years old and doesn't show any signs of wear yet. You may have trouble on untreated maple boards though or other soft woods. I'd say you can play fretless with a pick or whatever you want, fingerstyle is more traditional for it but theres no reason why you cant pick it!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1316371017' post='1377094']

Yep, dont think he used a pick Will I have to stop using my beloved roundwound strings too!
[/quote]

I always used roundwounds on my fretless basses. All but one had rosewood fingerboards and I never had to get the boards looked at, I probably did 100+ gigs on one rosewood-boarded Jazz that I had without any issues, and I was using Rotosounds the whole time which everybody says chew frets up. Go figure.

There are definitely some nice cheap fretless basses to be had. Look at used Squiers or the '80s Yamaha BB models, something like that.

[Jerry_B]

I say go for it. As for sounding like Mick Karn, you could chase that for ages and never get there. And you may be more likely to find your own sound and grow to appreciate that. Trying to sound just like any given player in IMHO a bit of an uphill task, as there's too many factors to consider.

I'd say have a go, see if you like it, then noodle around alot to get used to it. Fingerstyle, playing with a plectrum, etc - all part of the fun!

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1316371017' post='1377094']

Will I have to stop using my beloved roundwound strings too!
[/quote]

Well normal roundwounds are a bit grippy to slide with but you can get used to it. You can also use coated roundwounds such as elixir nanowebs which are almost as smooth to slide as flats whilst retaining the brightness of roundwounds.

Edited September 22, 2011 by bassman7755

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Jerry_B' timestamp='1316609224' post='1380310']
I say go for it. As for sounding like Mick Karn, you could chase that for ages and never get there. And you may be more likely to find your own sound and grow to appreciate that. Trying to sound just like any given player in IMHO a bit of an uphill task, as there's too many factors to consider.

I'd say have a go, see if you like it, then noodle around alot to get used to it. Fingerstyle, playing with a plectrum, etc - all part of the fun!
[/quote]

Do you think shaving my eyebrows off might help?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1316371017' post='1377094']
Will I have to stop using my beloved roundwound strings too!
[/quote]
Some flatwounds are substantially brighter than others - D'Addario Chromes and Roto Jazz, for example - and La Bella Black Nylons are roundwounds with a top layer of flat black nylon. Alo worth trying Thomastik Jazz Flats.

[Bilbo]

As for only sounding like Karn if you had a Wal? I understand that most of his stuff was recorded without a Wal.

From Wikipedia....

'Karn played an aluminium-neck Travis Bean bass on all Japan albums up to Gentlemen Take Polaroids. In 1981 he moved to Wal basses, purchasing two Mark I instruments, one with rare African tulipwood facings, the other a cherry solidbody. Karn recorded Japan's last studio album Tin Drum with the Wal and had continued to use these, along with a headless Klein 'K Bass'

[JellyKnees]

I'd suggest one of these as a good budget fretless.

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Vintage-V940FL-Fretless-Bass-Guitar-Natural/5CT"]http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Vintage-V940FL-Fretless-Bass-Guitar-Natural/5CT[/url]

I got one when I decided to get back into fretless after a a gap of nearly 20 years. They are excellent value for money, very solid and pretty versatile with a decent sound.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1317116146' post='1386812']
I'd suggest one of these as a good budget fretless.

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Vintage-V940FL-Fretless-Bass-Guitar-Natural/5CT"]http://www.gear4musi...tar-Natural/5CT[/url]

I got one when I decided to get back into fretless after a a gap of nearly 20 years. They are excellent value for money, very solid and pretty versatile with a decent sound.
[/quote]

I've got one of these myself, though now not used any more because I've got a 5 string fretless. I'm getting tempted to offload it ...

[iconic]

Squier vintage modified jazz, tapeworms and rear pup only will get you someway to a early Japan fretless sound, like visions, gentlemen etc, the vmj has cheater lines too, but for the of being obvious fret the notes on the lines, not between as a fretted bass...took me few hours to work that out thinking my intonation was out!

[RhysP]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1318573804' post='1403808']
Squier vintage modified jazz, tapeworms and rear pup only will get you someway to a early Japan fretless sound,
[/quote]
Tapeworms?

[FuNkShUi]

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-String-Thru-Neck-Bass-Active-Walnut-Fretless-/220872733629?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D170697392873%252B170697392873%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3467563808171964153"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-String-Thru-Neck-Bass-Active-Walnut-Fretless-/220872733629?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D170697392873%252B170697392873%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3467563808171964153[/url]

Dont know if this is any good, but remembered this thread and thought id post it just in case. Its pretty cheap!

[iconic]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1318584960' post='1403936']
Tapeworms?
[/quote]


sorry Tapewounds....I always call them Tapeworms!


Rotosound True Bass Black Nylons.

[url="http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/products/1046-rotosound_tru_bass_black_nylon_strings_65_115_medium_scale_rs88m"]http://www.stringsdi...ium_scale_rs88m[/url]

Edited October 14, 2011 by iconic

[lowdown]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1318606042' post='1404302']

I always call them Tapeworms!


[/quote]

I think that must come under...........

[b] " [size=5]Irritating terms that non-musos use..."[/size][/b]




Garry

Edited October 14, 2011 by lowdown

[bassatnight]

I have had fretless Wals and own a Travis Bean TB2000 fretless which Mick used for four of the 5 Japan Albums, I also believe a couple of tracks on Tin Drum were the TB2000 but he found the metal neck an annoyance as it constantly goes out of tune under different temperatures (I can also vouch for that!)

Mick never changed his strings unless they broke but replicating his unique style is a nightmare due to his shall we say unique approach to the finger board.

He wasn't called rubber fingers for nothing! I would go for a second hand Mexican Fretless, I paid £250 for one of the Bay I changed the Bridge and pups on and was pretty perfect.

[Rumple]

On the pick front I believe Tony Levin used one on his fretless work with Peter Gabriel, Sledgehammer being one fine example.