Grunge and Nevermind, the truth pops up again

[Dave Vader]

[url="http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/how-nirvanas-nevermind-destroyed-grunge/"]http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/how-nirvanas-nevermind-destroyed-grunge/[/url]

Anyone have a contrary opinion? Maybe?

[Low End Bee]

Looks on the money to me.

[Jerry_B]

Hmm - 'grunge' never really existed, IMHO. Nevermind actually killed Nirvana's sound, as it was horribly over-produced.

[bartelby]

Always hated the term 'grunge'.

I think the media and the fashion industry latching itself the music scene and, inapropriately, jamming that hideous lable on to everything in an attempt to reach a new market.

The Pearl Jam film refreshed my memory to the $900 "grunge" designer outfits. That's the kind of thing that destroyed it.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bartelby

[risingson]

Sounds like more music journalism attempting to sanctify a genre by outlining the reasons why the figurehead band of said genre had nothing to do anything. The lines drawn in the sand are far too vague for this particular writer to have any sort of authority on the matter. If the majority of people refer to it as 'grunge' then the likelihood is that that will be the category you'll find it under at your local music store. For the rest of us, it's just good music.

[derrenleepoole]

The first album Bleach is far better. Although Nevermind is good, Bleach is just raw and brutal and works better for it

[dlloyd]

Okay... how do you post youtube clips now?

[FuNkShUi]

I would say Nevermind is probably my favourite of all their stuff. Certainly the CD that first got me into music. In Utero was a bit over produced for me, and Bleach was a bit too raw. Think my favourite Nirvana song was "sappy". Yours??

[Kirky]

I always thought they were a second rate Husker Du, although still not bad.

[bartelby]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1316621691' post='1380543']
Okay... how do you post youtube clips now?
[/quote]

[media] tags and put the whole url in, I think

[code][media] ***Youtube URL [/media][/code]

Edited September 21, 2011 by bartelby

[daz]

There arent too many albums that one hears and knows straight away that it is something special. but this was definately one of them.

[amnesia]

Nevermind...one of only two albums I have bought and then sold. Hey ho.


The article reads like the author likes 'cooler' bands than you and I, because he doesn't follow the mainstream.

[Billy Apple]

I saw Nirvana 3 times. First at Newcastle riverside on the Bleach tour. It was OK, but at the time the Sub Pop label did lots of tours, and they were just another band. I much preferred Tad anyway. The second time was at the Newcastle Mayfair on the Nevermind tour, just prior to them becoming a Stadium band. It was packed and the media were everywhere. All I remember thinking was where were all these c**nts at the Riverside, and how come the place was full of 16 year olds? They did however produce a mighty big sound for a three piece, but when they smashed up their instruments I lost interest. The last time was at Reading festival, and they were close to the top of the bill, and it seemed like everyone had come to see them. I couldn't have cared less and thought they acted like K**b-heads smashing everything up again.

I've always thought that there were loads better bands around at the time, but they must have made a pact with someone, so all the camera's were pointed at them. I think the article from the OP is true. Whether it killed grunge off, I'm not so sure, but it certainly became another pop genre and a vehicle to sell loads of units. Also if ever I hear songs from Nevermind I think it sounds really dated and has not weathered well. Thought the whole thing was Emperors New Clothes.

[Linus27]

I prefered Pearl Jam over Nirvana and the whole grunge thing. I liked grunge but found it all a bit noisy and messy. Pearl Jam seemed more mature and a bit more detached from the whole grunge thing. There songwritting is far more mature and skilled. They only got labelled grunge because they came from Seattle but in all honesty, Seatle had such a big music scene at the time that any band that came from Seattle at the time got labelled grunge.

I nearly recorded my old bands first album at the London Bridge Studio is Seatle with Rick Parashar who produced Pearl Jam's "Ten" album. Despite it being very tempting to go to Seatle for three months to record our the first album, we decided as a band that it would not be wise to send a very green band all the way to a strange country to record their first album. We also wanted to record in the UK and retain an English sound rather than end up sounding very american. I think it was the right decision but looking back it would had been one hell of an experience.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Linus27

[Billy Apple]

I forgot to say, the stand out talent of Nirvana (IMHO) was Dave Grohl. As I remember he was not with them the first time round on bleach, but at the second gig he was immense. He created a huge, huge sound. I think this elevated them up from others around them. And clearly post Nirvana he is an immensely talented guy.

[Linus27]

[quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1316629406' post='1380703']
I forgot to say, the stand out talent of Nirvana (IMHO) was Dave Grohl. As I remember he was not with them the first time round on bleach, but at the second gig he was immense. He created a huge, huge sound. I think this elevated them up from others around them. And clearly post Nirvana he is an immensely talented guy.
[/quote]

Yep, have to agree with this. I also think Kurt was very talented as a singer and songwriter.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1316624621' post='1380594']
There arent too many albums that one hears and knows straight away that it is something special. but this was definately one of them.
[/quote]
This.

I still remember hearing Smells Like Teen Spirit for the first time on Raw Power (anyone remember that?) sandwiched between the hairsprayed fluff it destroyed almost overnight. It's a truly great album, simple as that. It doesn't need beatification or justification. It is what it is. As for that article, it felt like some furrowed brow journo trying to conjur up a story where there wasn't one. Who gives a sh*te what classification it is or isn't? It's just a collection of brilliant tunes.

[Green Alsatian]

Aye, I remember Raw Power - do you remember it when it was The Power Hour, with Zoidzilla on the opening titles? Ah memories - I'd get in between 1-2am from my glass-collecting job, catch the end of the James Whale Radio Show, whatever Sci-fi series was on (Friday The 13th, Twilight Zone etc.) and then wait up for the Power Hour/Raw Power. I had a proper crush on Nikki Groocock back then!

Back to the article, It seems he's trying hard to provoke a reaction from Nirvana fans, more than anything. I do agree that Nevermind was a polished album, but what the hell's wrong with making a great-sounding album? You see a band live if you want the rawness and energy.

I thought Nirvana were alright, and Nevermind is a good album with some great songs on it. I'd started listening to punk & new wave bands from the late 70s around that time, so I didn't pay much attention to them. The metal club I used to frequent started playing Smells Like Teen Spirit, but it didn't get anywhere near the reaction as Metallica's Enter Sandman, which had not long come out.

Over that year, a lot of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden (who I thought were the better of these bands) was played there and it became part of the 'audio furniture' - I certainly don't remember grunge 'coming in and taking over' as some folk who weren't old enough to be going out back then make out. (I've ended up in many an argument with 'enthusiastic' Nirvana fans). I've heard folk saying that grunge killed metal, but I don't think it's true - shook things up a bit, as punk did in the 70s, perhaps.

One thing I'm grateful to Nirvana for, is that I might not have discovered The Meat Puppets - I've got most of their albums and you can definitely hear the influence they had over Nirvana. I also agree that Dave Grohl was the best thing to come from it - I've seen the Foo Fighters a couple of times and they're a fun band to listen to and great performers live. His drumming on Queens of the Stone Age's Songs For The Deaf was fantastic!

Award yourself five points if you're still awake!

Edited September 21, 2011 by Green Alsatian

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1316635371' post='1380825']
Aye, I remember Raw Power - do you remember it when it was The Power Hour, with Zoidzilla on the opening titles? Ah memories - I'd get in between 1-2am from my glass-collecting job, catch the end of the James Whale Radio Show, whatever Sci-fi series was on (Friday The 13th, Twilight Zone etc.) and then wait up for the Power Hour/Raw Power. I had a proper crush on Nikki Groocock back then!

Award yourself five points if you're still awake!
[/quote]
That was my life from ages 14-18

And, yes, Nikki Groocock, yes please.

[Sparky]

In the Pearl Jam film there's a bit where an interviewer asks Eddie Vedder something along the lines of 'Does grunge still exist?'. Vedder pauses, rubs his teeth and looks down at his finger as if to check... It's a hard genre to define but I'm almost certain I missed it.

[Ou7shined]

I was listening to bands like Soundgarden (check the screen name ) the Melvins, Mother Love Bone, Green River, My Sister's Machine etc. before Nirvana hit our shores but I have to say that hearing Nevermind changed my life for ever. I think the world changed after Nevermind.

Despite having once been in a Pearl Jam tribute for many years I am not comfortable with PJ being described as grunge. Ok it's a handy label to stick them in and there is some grunge DNA in their lineage but if PJ were grunge they are more like the Spandau Ballet of grunge... even when they try to turn the sludge up they just sound like garage rock.

I think it's funny that we are now denying the term grunge as it defies a definition in todays eyes... back then we knew what grunge was.

My name is Ou7shined. I am grunge.