Tune down more or use an octaver?

[Ou7shined]

We are a 3 piece stoner rock outfit with me and the guitar tuned to drop C ([b]CGCF[/b]AD)

At tonights practice we were jamming a new tune written by the guitarist.... only he's written it in a different tuning to our norm - dropped the Lower C and G down to A# and F. The tune's main riff is based around A#. I was happy enough to still play it in drop C (3rd fret "A" string) but he suggested I tune like him to get the real low sound on the open A#. I gave it a bash and it worked out fine once I got my head around how my runs were going to work with one half the bass tuned a further tone down from the other side.... which is already tuned down as it is.

It's all well and good but at the end of the day I kind of find multiple tunings a bit old now and I don't want to tune this bass down any further when I have it specifically set up for drop C. I do get what he was saying and I do quite like the drop A# sound but these days I just see it as extra hassle. And to tell you the truth I didn't use the open A# all that much.

I could take my 5 string along for that one tune and tune it down accordingly but I'm kind of looking to not take 2 basses to gigs.

Will a decent octaver keep my guitarist happy or is there just no substitute for actually tuning down?

[risingson]

The 5 string is the obvious move (I'm not saying get one, just saying it would be easy given your situation). Tuning down for the kind of music you describe though is generally seen as the best move, I believe DR do a set of strings catering exclusively for lower tunings that are meant to be excellent.

The octaver I always felt was an effect rather than a substitute for extended range/drop tuning. I'm in no doubt that it would work with some practice, but I think downtuning adds to the general heaviness that your kind of music would require. I hate doing it personally but hey ho.

[Ou7shined]

I already have a 5er that I could start using in this band but I don't really want to as so much of what we play is based on open C.

As for strings I'm good. I use XL 125's (just the BEA&D obviously) so I can get that nice low growl with my open C... they also handled the A# very well tonight and felt really great in fact. But cheers for the tip.

I know what you're saying about the octaver this is what I'm fearing might be the case - whenever I've heard one on a bass, it just sounds like an octaver, it doesn't sound like the same thing played an octave below... if that makes sense.

[mononick]

i dont think an octave pedal would be very convincing, especially playing notes that low

[Sonic_Groove]

Can't you come up with something an octave higher than you were playing it for just the one tune?

B

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='mononick' timestamp='1316650003' post='1381067']
i dont think an octave pedal would be very convincing, especially playing notes that low
[/quote]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Hmmm you could be right... although I'm talking about taking an A# and making it sound like a dropped A# so in the grand scheme of things it's not that low. I've seen a vid with [color="#000000"]Ed Friedland[/color] where he took the MXR octaver down to F# before it started glitching.[/font]

Edited September 22, 2011 by Ou7shined

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Sonic_Groove' timestamp='1316650793' post='1381073']
Can't you come up with something an octave higher than you were playing it for just the one tune?

B
[/quote]
Well yeah that's what I was doing until the guitarist suggested tuning down further in order to get the open A#.

[Sonic_Groove]

Maybe try an octaver mixed in low or blended to "fatten" it out a bit? Say 25% Octaver?

[Ou7shined]

Guys just because I play in a stoner rock outfit, it doesn't mean that I actually am one. M'kay.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1316645434' post='1381016']
Will a decent octaver keep my guitarist happy or is there just no substitute for actually tuning down?
[/quote]
In 7 years (on and off) of playing chunky, down-tuned stoner riffage, I've never found anything that comes close to actually physically tuning down to match the guitar. It just has that heft, that weight, that hmmphhgghhpppphhhhhh... (Just be careful not to get into the mad war of attrition where your guitarist just keeps tuning down and down to get heavier and heavier, only to find that you might as well just be farting into mics through tissue paper and Big Muffs for all the clarity you're getting. We've been down to drop-G before seeing the light and coming back up again.)

Octave pedals never really have that aggression (they can "growl", but they don't clank), and playing up the octave (doubling the guitar) leaves a hollow bottom end. Great for an effect in an intro or mid-song breakdown, but not for when you want to really blast it.

Looks like you're going to need two basses (I've had three per gig in the past: standard/drop-D, drop-C and drop-Bb), or see if you can just drop the bottom C-string (Hipshot, maybe?) and still play the riff with the G tuned to G, rather than F.

[EdwardHimself]

I don't think you can really substitue a proper low note with an octaver or playing up an octave. I say go with 2 basses.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='BottomEndian' timestamp='1316683531' post='1381265']
In 7 years (on and off) of playing chunky, down-tuned stoner riffage, I've never found anything that comes close to actually physically tuning down to match the guitar. It just has that heft, that weight, that hmmphhgghhpppphhhhhh... (Just be careful not to get into the mad war of attrition where your guitarist just keeps tuning down and down to get heavier and heavier, only to find that you might as well just be farting into mics through tissue paper and Big Muffs for all the clarity you're getting. We've been down to drop-G before seeing the light and coming back up again.)

Octave pedals never really have that aggression (they can "growl", but they don't clank), and playing up the octave (doubling the guitar) leaves a hollow bottom end. Great for an effect in an intro or mid-song breakdown, but not for when you want to really blast it.

Looks like you're going to need two basses (I've had three per gig in the past: standard/drop-D, drop-C and drop-Bb), or see if you can just drop the bottom C-string (Hipshot, maybe?) and still play the riff with the G tuned to G, rather than F.
[/quote]
Cheers for that. That's exactly what I was thinking.
I do have a bass extender on that bass but I'd need one on the "A" (second) string too if it were a perfect world and there ain't no room. I can't see me taking multiple basses to gigs so I guess I'm just going to have to tune down for that song.... and any other that start creeping into the set list.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1316686686' post='1381335']
I don't think you can really substitue a proper low note with an octaver or playing up an octave. I say go with 2 basses.
[/quote]
Yeah it is a thought. And I suppose the benefit would be that I could have the whole bass tuned down to drop A# rather than just half of it. But it's a big old hassle as I usually have a beer after gigs so any gear I take with me I either carry home or leave in the venue to be picked up the next day. Take 2 basses into the pub? Not me.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1316687258' post='1381350']
I guess I'm just going to have to tune down for that song.... and any other that start creeping into the set list.
[/quote]
Slippery slope, mate.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='BottomEndian' timestamp='1316687744' post='1381370']
Slippery slope, mate.
[/quote]
I hear ya.

[cheddatom]

I find that playing a line an octave up with my OC-2 on blended often sounds fatter than playing open strings. I do have some overdrive and compression going on as well though. I play 6 strings but still do this for a fatter sound than the low B. I guess it's a personal thing.

[chris_b]

[quote name='BottomEndian' timestamp='1316683531' post='1381265']
....Looks like you're going to need two [b]5 string [/b]basses....
[/quote]
[size=4]Fixed![/size]