Are Bb Players Lazy?

[AttitudeCastle]

In my eyes (being a Bassist, and a Trombonist in Bb and Sackbut in C player having played the former two in jazz groups) it's the same as a guitarist or bass player feeling more comfertable playing in EADG any Bb player worth their salt should be able to play in any key and tuning but Bb is our "home" Key and is most relaxed and easy to play, for me as a Bass Trombonist for example, a Bb major scale is a nice warm up, an Eb major isn't difficult but much less comfertable to play going higher than i like to play as it requires more attention (this is over two octaves by the way i'm no totally rubbish!) and to that a proffesional Bass Trombonist of as many years of my age should find both easier but it comes from the roots and how the instrument is taught. If you asked me to play a scale on trombone, i'd play Bb Major, and on Bass G major even though i was never taught on bass it's the one scale i was "told" to learn

Thats all IME as it were, might not be right for all and such!

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1316868803' post='1383846']
I love playing with guitarists who don't flinch at the mention of Eb.
[/quote]

Jimi never complained of Eb..........

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1316943473' post='1384511']
I think Dlloyd, covered it quite well. Having come from Trombone and played in Brass Bands and Orchestras for the first 10 years of my musical life. I got used to living in a Mono world. Just playing notes and not having to understand why this or that note, I have played for years without any need to understand Chords and where I fitted into the whole picture. When I took up the bass my musical world suddenly became three dimensional, Music changed from Black and white to colour.
There are of course exceptions to this rule, but even now blowers i.e. Trumpet and trombone players are less likely to improvise as Sax players who are naturally drawn to Jazz in the first place.
And yes they are usually lazy in that they turn up just in time for them; helping set up n pack away etc. is not on their radar. They will be first in line for food n drink and seem to have a very narrow view on the subtleties of dealing with the clients.
So I would add selfish in as well as lazy
[/quote]

You should meet the brass section of the Big band i play 4th Trombone for, we all scrap when the word "solo" is mentioned for whoever gets the longest improvised solo! (Everyone wants it, not trying to escape it haha! )

Like i said, any musician playing at high standards should be able to play in any key or tuning within the limitations of their instrument, like don't tell someone with a renaissance flute in C to play in A as they only have the notes of C on their instrument!

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1316946430' post='1384569']

Jimi never complained of Eb..........
[/quote]
True, but did he flinch at the prospect of D?

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1316946549' post='1384571']
True, but did he flinch at the prospect of D?
[/quote]

Probably not, LSD does that to you (so I have heard!).

[Doddy]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1316890059' post='1384183']
As an aside, some songs we were going up 5 or 6. I can transpose on the fly when it is a few, but 5 or 6 is a bit different and I couldn't do it in real time on a fast swing number.

As to the comments regarding moving fret positions, I don't learn songs with fret positions and shapes, instead use chords and notes improvising over them. Just shifting up or down the fret board wouldn't work and is even less likely to work on a DB given the much harder intonation the further you get towards 11th position and beyond. I haven't mastered thumb position yet!

The joys of Jazzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
[/quote]

That's why you should ideally practise playing standards (as we're talking about jazz) in all keys.
I remember reading about a clinic with John Clayton a few years ago where he asked someone to call out a
key for him to play in...someone did,and Clayton then went on to play 'Body and Soul' in a that key,which was
apparently nowhere near the 'standard' key for that tune.

It's really handy to be able to look at tunes as being I-iv-ii-V,or whatever-it makes transposing on the fly so much easier.

[4 Strings]

Our dinner jazz band has keys chosen by the singer and the sax just plays in that key and transposes according to which sax he plays. He is way away a better musician than any of the rest of us though. I have the easiest job (apart from the drummer!) the piano can struggle come solo time if he's familiar with a song in another key.

We do Superstition in the Motown band and keep to Eb, and I must admit I knock the 4th string down a semitone to get the low note. Sax loves it.

[nottswarwick]

It might of course be easy to play in, say, F on guitar without a capo, but if you need certain open strings as part of the riff to whatever, you have to stick one on. Then it is not cheating, it is needed for the tune.

Example - Wonderwall (lol) - it IS possible to play the guitar riff using barre chords exclusively instead of the second fret capo, but why should I?
Or Mr Brightside - they down tune, so to do the riff PROPERLY, with the correct open strings, and at the original pitch (say the singer needs it) you have to tune to Eb (song needs Db etc). Which is a royal pain in the arse when playing guitar and your band won't do it at standard tuning.

Not sure what my point it actually...I think I am basically waffling around the point - it's not about what is easier (capo, down tune), use whatever is available if the song needs it to sound right?

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1316965410' post='1384923']



It's really handy to be able to look at tunes as being I-iv-ii-V,or whatever-it makes transposing on the fly so much easier.
[/quote]

^^^